It's basically the new /r/GenZedong.
They should've done this way before this became a problem.
I'd like Nakoichi's thoughts on this as well.
in leftist spaces its best to assume anyone posting materials about illegal shit that the atf would send you to prison for is an actual fed
there were people discussing how to make weapons on hexbear earlier this week and it was pretty uncomfortable that they'd received so many upvotes
comrades, I just want a space to support each other and shitpost
"Heheheh would be a terrible shame if these instructions on how to make an IED got spread around", Mixter Performative Radical said, and then proceed to never make an IED
People who want leftists to commit violence never do it themselves.
Curious.
Geez, it's almost as if revolution has phases or something!
Not just that, you have to wait for a revolutionary situation.
And it's not just the revolution that has phases; the movement has phases and, while there's lots of anger at the current state of things, we lack cohesion and organization.
Don't get me wrong: Americans are angry at, well, everything about this country but relying on how "people feel" is kinda idealistic; not materialistic.
The recent RevLeft New Years ep had a segment about how revolution requires revolutionary conditions, you can't just convince a lot of people to do a revolution and then will it to happen on the lathe. Until the material conditions reach a point to actually allow a revolution you can only organize and prepare for the revolutionary moment, so that when it comes you can actually use that moment to do something.
The BLM uprisings were a potential revolutionary moment, but there wasn't an underlying organizational structure to actually do anything about it. Without cohesion, eventually the masses tucker themselves out, get it out of their system, and everything returns to normal.
eventually the masses tucker themselves out, get it out of their system, and everything returns to normal.
This is why the cia throws immense amounts of money at features of their reactionary revolutions intended to drag them out for as long as possible.
Free food, free drink, stage, music, shows, etc etc. Everything to keep people in the revolutionary moment for as long as possible.
Maidan is a very strong example of this. Massive amounts of money spent on things that were really just about making it "fun" to get the average people to stick around as long as possible and not lose the energy while the vanguard groups went about their plans.
Eh, maybe some other time.
I've thought about this for a while, but from what I've read, simply hopping onto the "revolution" or uprising phase doesn't work; you have to do movement-building first and then you can think about revolution.
Also, you have to build dual power which is a bit different than just movement-building but that's a whole 'nother can of worms to deal with.
Movements can take decades, maybe even a century or two, with many zigs and zags; I think that's the more depressing aspect of it, depending on one's point of view.
Then again, I view the movements and socialism/communism in epochs which means that we have to be thinking long-term... which makes the short-term thinking of these people that try to push people into committing violent acts (because they're too chicken-shit to do so) all the more tragic.
Actually doing a thing is hard.
Talking about doing a thing is comparatively much easier.
Fethishizing violence is the easiest way to identify a childish leftist
Oh but when I say this, I get ratioed. Ok. At least I'm glad people universally agree on this here.
this is just petty drama baiting by posting this into as many comms as possible
I only posted it in six, from what I can tell.
Usually, I cross-post much more to promote Hexbear.
none of this takes away from the fact that you're drama baiting and being as petty about this as possible (as well as sectarian in the comments here)
It's fine. I'm sorry you feel that way. I wish it could've been different.
promote lmao
can this user get banned already
making false accusations of people being secret patsocs wasn't enough, so now it's time to find a new target ☝️😌
https://hexbear.net/modlog?page=1&userId=25623
removed by moderator
to be absolutely fair, hexbear as a whole, hell even leftists as a whole, have a problem with calling everyone a liberal (and derivatives).
Zero serious discussion -> nihilism sets in
did genzedong actually say anything to get quarantined or was that another disinformation strike?
deprogram is pretty much identical memes but sides neutral/against assad putin & maduro
did genzedong actually say anything to get quarantined or was that another disinformation strike?
Being openly pro Russia when the SMO started. The reason given was a vague reference to "disinformation".
Nope, it was "misinformation" when the SMO started. There was a lot of Z-posting stuff (that in retrospect was a bit over the top) and a lot of sources shared that directly contradicted the Western view of the SMO.
Nobody else wanted to stray outside the libertarian-esque muh tax dollars argument, but they still got all affronted at ANSWER coalition type antiwar ppl in washington using the same anemic criticism. Same shit Zizek did during Iraq like "hey cmon i'm as left as a guy can be but are you really stanning saddam hussein lol??" totally unaware of the actual arguments until years later, when they will still be smug.
Whatever, not like it matters. Ukraine won the mind war. Solidnet stood with the working class of Ukraine against the little green men who snuck into Donbas. Everyone made their difference.
Nah in retrospect it was exactly correct and the hedging both siders have been completely discredited
I don't mean both siders, I mean that some of the memes (some of which I contributed) could've shown a little more nuance in how they expressed support for the SMO (e.g. "Russia is correct in doing what they have to do after trying every other option" versus "Russia can do no wrong and deserves full support in everything").
Idk if I'm making much sense. There's a patsoc/aesthetic focused element that I think should have been avoided.
Feel free to ignore me if that seems incoherent, I'm not trying make an argument, just explain what I meant.
Also remember at the time, the official stance of the entire western left was “Russia isn’t going to invade, this is played up media hysteria”. When that view was proven wrong, many over corrected to the official US state department view or nihilistic both sidesism because their view of the situation was very shallow, they didn’t know anything about Donbas or Crimea or the Maidan. This is true even on /r/genzedong, where most were caught off guard and a majority started making mealy mouth denunciations of Russia instead of critically supporting them. It was a vocal minority that pushed back against the chauvinist impulse and made the case that Russia is acting in an anti-imperialist and anti-fascist way in this situation.
Nobody was listening to the minority of non-Russophobic communists and anti-imperialists saying Russia may likely invade as it has X, Y and Z legitimate concerns leading up to the war. Those people were called pro-Putin stooges, little green men, russiabots, pat socs, etc. even though they were correct. It was only after the western left's shallow worldview of big bad (yet impotent) Putinist Russia was popped that they seriously began to take the views of these anti-imperialists seriously and began to consider to the Russian perspective, or consider hearing what Russians have to say without instant dismissal.
Russia can do no wrong and deserves full support in everything
I was there and I didn't see any of this. I saw critical support stated unflinchingly, which enraged radlibs and they framed it as russia worship & I saw both sides ultra shit. The two argued a lot right before the ban. That's it. The radlibs saw what they wanted to see. Those same people would have been appalled at the news mega.
Idk, man. Maybe I just don't remember it clearly, that's what it felt like to me.
To be clear, I don't feel like it was a major element, and I still think the quarantine was bullshit.
Z posting is fine by the way, just like Hamas posting is. Memes and support often are taken out of context and taken way too literally by Pearl clutchers in the opposition. A shitposting anti-imperialist meme subreddit is going to have Z posts. I’m tired of leftists treating Russians like lepers they must hold their nose at, most of that comes from Russophobia from the Cold War, Red Scares and Russiagate. Most of their criticisms are ill informed imperialist intrigue or the reasons why we are critically supporting them instead of uncritically, and is already implicitly understood by the anti-imperialists.
Deprogram is like if you mixed genzedong with 196, inserting a lot more radlib and literal children
The users there seem very young and internet naive, like they are blown away by common leftist facts and have a hard time parsing cynicism and sarcasm, often misinterpreting meaning. Contrast that with the old Chapo or TrueAnon subreddits where there’s a bunch of heterodox weirdos with tons of esoteric knowledge and references, and lots of humor/sarcasm and world weariness, it’s night and day
That's probably true overall yeah, that's why you can just as easily have a thread that's like "what do we think of these guys?" and a picture of the Communist Party of the Philippines (where all the commenters are like "they give me a good feeling. great stuff") as you can have a thread giving Sison a raised eyebrow for calling for attacks on companies the Philippine govt & the US had recently sanctioned from the Netherlands shortly before his death
tbf, its the literal deprogramming sub. a lot of people there will be new to leftism because the three deprogram hosts make content for new leftists
It was and it wasn't, afaik.
GenZedong was too blatant and shitposty with its content and was quarantined for being too toxic.
Or that's what I was told anyway. They also kept brigading others too.
But yes, I wouldn't be surprised if it was a disinfo strike on top of other factors, which I'm not entirely unsympathetic to.
"Brigading" is a nonsense concept. These aren't private communities. Coming to the community and engaging with the content isn't an invasion. That's just using the website 🙄
Are trolls just using the website? Kerryposters? Is that Israeli app that directs users to dogpile pro-Palestine social media comments OK?
Brigading should mean more than organic users posting a link in a friendlier space and saying "hey check this shit out." But I wouldn't say it's a useless concept altogether.
You can make the same "they were just using the website" argument for spam. It's fair to set the moderation bar above "is this functionality designed in."
[speaking from within your walls] If the impression reddit follows an actual system with moderating communists makes you feel like Tankie Bunker subs are safer, I won't disturb that.
BalticSSRs, sendinthetanks, informedtankie, should be fine for a while if they're not banned over Israel posting
my advice would be act like Al Jazeera to remain on reddit if that's anyone's priority.
Also, many leftist/commie subs followed your advice to the T. The mods at MoreTankieChapo at the end were in full cooperation with the admins and removing content the admins didn't like. They still got banned. FULLCOMMUNISM mods were in cooperation with the admins and still got perma-quarantined. Following Reddit rules isn't enough to stay unbanned, certain types of anti-imperialist posting and truth saying about ISIS/Al Qaeda/CIA/Mossad will just get you banned over tiny minor infractions or delays from the mods.
It's like taking cops seriously about giving people contradictory Simon Says instructions & shooting them
MoreMoreTankieChapo even caught a ban for being a MoreTankieChapo ban evasion sub, when they were in fact a leftist infighting schism sub.
CTH2 also ate it for being a ban evasion sub of CTH even though it was a different community and split off years before CTH ban
my advice would be act like Al Jazeera
Stoically continue posting content as your family is murdered in front of you?
express disgust at cruelty and waste but stick within the narrative and keep track of when the rules change
They don't even do that, that at least would honor the martyrs who have been killed doing journalism in Gaza. They instead altered their English coverage to be less anti-Israel after Blinken ordered them to. They cucked.
Qatar should have told Blinken to fuck off and have western media spend a month in Gaza to align their reporting with reality, but instead they folded and sold out Palestine like all the gulf states do
https://orinocotribune.com/inconsistencies-between-arabic-and-english-programming-al-jazeera-walks-a-tightrope/
This Orinoco Tribune article posted by Al_Sham (well-highlighted) in the news mega got me thinking about how I need to write down my impressions the way seemingly radical journalism can subvert and demoralize, I'm sure this is better put by other people.
To lay out a few general traits that I will back up with examples (starting with ones less likely to piss people off then moving up)
equivocating US/NATO/Canada/Aus/SK/Japan/Zionist tactics/political aims with enemy
defeatism, under the guise of outrage. US/etc. side is merely accused of disproportionate response. the sustainability of our tactics isn't questioned, but the morality of it is. it is frequently remarked it could be spent on healthcare instead. (this enforces more myths about government spending than it dispels, which you can see by how it gets equal play with libertarians)
strictly using US/NATO/etc. sources, even if critical. uses the logic of anti-disinformation against what you'd consider
amplifies existing messaging possibly without attribution
dilutes & prunes messaging to get more coverage within the Western media sphere & its outputs
sensationalism focuses attention on redundant events & doesn't examine the larger program an atrocity is a part of (My Lai for instance, Doug Valentine calls this out in the book he wrote after the Phoenix Program, mentioning Hersh, Scahill, Ellsberg, Amy Goodman, and others, if you want to go look at examples, although those are also examples of how to maintain access to intelligence sources tit for tat)
Sorry for yapping I'm walking around
my advice would be act like Al Jazeera
Throw your reporters under the bus to die and follow US orders to “put a lid” on the anti-Israel sentiment?
Yes expect to get nothing for your efforts basically. Follow instructions and get punished for it.
Being blatant in your communism is good. Genzedong was better than any subreddit that exists on Reddit today
GenZedong was cool, although very shitposty. The subs that replaced GenZedong (Dongistan and such) were terrible though, allowing actual fascists to vibe in there just because they happened to support Russia at the start of the Ukraine-Russia conflict.
every version of Dongistan is trash, that's worth mentioning lol
turanic racism caucus
I only ever saw it on Reddit, not surprised though. That subreddit (Dongistan) was literally what lemmy libs describe Hexbear as, red fascists. Proof that leftist movements without theory quickly devolve into liberal sensationalism
I still think this is giving patsocs and people too much credit 😂 they just sidle up to people who they notice have potential overlapping conversation topics. They barely know what is even happening
I remember in 2019-2020 the Infrared mods were like openly trying to parlay with TrueAnon fans, because they interact with other "online debate" communities that act like that, where there are like alliances and shit. Very bizarre.
They genuinely were just like "hmm, Epstein didn't kill himself, vaccine skepticism, maybe these are also our guys? poke em"
Not a leftist movement, it's more like the false Buddhist monk's Discord, Bhante Varrapanyo. Right down to the former rightist + religion debate overlap. (Go look up people on /r/Buddhism complaining about him if you're curious lmao, allegedly he was waving around bales of cash and screaming.)
GZD and Deprogram and Chapo are really only as different as they want to make themselves out to be, they act like similar manifestations. At least GZD is actually politically connected to the Landless Workers' Movement in Brazil, and you all donate to Chunka Luta. I guess Tankie Bunker has CPUSA, which definitely exists.
The discord the reply bot in informed tankie, balticssrs, sendinthetanks, etcetera, links you to. Maybe they stopped doing that idk.
Fun fact! — You can get banned from Discord in the process of getting your sub banned because the companies are tight. Lol
Also to be clear, I am now phone number banned from Discord and Telegram, so I dunno what goes on now. I remember cool international people in da Bunker. I think Andassol was in there? He's chill
It feels disgusting being phone number banned, not because I can't use it without a spoofed number or whatever, but because I know I got the chopping block when so many creepy Nazis and whatnot remained.
i can understand removals of actionable threats, but bans are a bit much. removals are more for safety than anything
We should host c/thedeprogram for all the people that want to post how to make bombs, guns and drugs.
"The Terrorist Handbook" was made shortly after in order to correct the worst errors of TAC, like their napalm recipe (Do Not Try that recipe you will die slowly and it will hurt the whole time)
I didn't say it was good. The riff was on hexbear being a left unity site so if we adopted the naming convention there wouldn't be a single ideology singled out.
correct though, many of the things in there are incorrect at best and dangerous to the self at worst. The phreaking section is actually mostly accurate albeit incomplete and only relevant to people with interest in the way it used to be.
I didn't say it was good. The riff was on hexbear being a left unity site so if we adopted the naming convention there wouldn't be a single ideology singled out.
Fuck sorry that was phrased wrong, i meant it more as "please do, the anarchist cookbook isn't a good one we need a better one" im very sorry.
we need a left unity version of the Improvised Munitions Handbook
No need to apologize, it's all good.
And much agreed, I think that even if the conditions are not there yet, they will be eventually and having good manuals is important for when shit actually hits the fan.
As a fan of Soviet stuff, you may enjoy this example of a highly successful one
uhh why are there 2 files that appear to be the same for every archive option. book.pdf vs partcom.pdf and they appear to have the same contents, but aren't the same size
EDIT: ok hmm one is 18 pages longer than the other, I guess that must be it
For legal reasons i definitely did not just download it to read
Thanks for the source comrade!
Happy to spread the word, the tactics and survival portions are still relevant. Setting up an enfilade, as an example, never becomes outdated. The speech from Stalin is cool too.
Exists on the grad already comrade but no harm in more than one ;)
The mod there is in the official Deprogram Patreon trying to police it without actual mod powers. Harassing people for literal jokes. They have always been a little unhinged.
Then a lot of us left for lemmygrad, but the culture somewhat changed after that. And it changed a lot after Hexbear federated, for much better I'd say.
that subreddit is really funny sometimes, theres a post there where greta thunberg was marching at some pro-palestine march or smth and most of the comments were like "wow greta is getting cool now"
but there were a couple of dumbasses who spotted a Ancom flag in the background and started bitching about how greta is a "anarkiddy" and how they hope she would educate herself about "the only viable form of socialism"
my guess is most of the users on that subreddit (and listeners of the podcast tbh) are <20 years old
Mr Fujiwara, this morning you gave Greta Thunberg a pink slip, employee of the month award, and Mother’s Day card all at the same time. I would like to know what is going on here, as I am the last remaining employee.
sheesh
