I am not white in the sense that "whiteness" is a socially constructed racial classification, but I am "white" in the sense that the color of my skin is white. I'm still not really "white-passing"; you wouldn't look at me and think I'm a white American or a westerner in general.
People will sometimes call me a "person of color". This tends to make me feel uncomfortable because I'm not really marginalized by society in the same way black or brown people are, and to me PoC is a term used mainly to draw attention to that form of marginalization.
It's not that I'm not marginalized at all because of the way I look. When I was younger, I was told to shave my beard any time I flew so I wasn't harassed in the airport for looking too terrorist-y.
Maybe my discomfort with the term PoC being used for me is that it specifically calls out the color aspect, and the color of my skin is white.
So I usually tell people I call myself "non-white" instead. What do you think? Maybe I'm overthinking this. I'd especially like to hear thoughts from black and brown comrades about this: would you call me a person of color? Thanks.
Edit: I'll probably stick to calling myself non-white, but I won't correct anybody if they call me a PoC. Thanks for the thoughts everyone, I appreciate it.
I don't have anything to offer other than just wishing racism wasn't a fucking thing. In the USA it feels like everyone is OBSESSED with it, and the PoC and all those labels and etc. just make my head hurt. I don't even think the Nazis had such a weirdly codified system of "race" as does the average US citizens. It fucking bothers me when people say I'm "Mexican" even though I was born in the USA. I'm not ashamed to have Mexican heritage, I am quite proud of it, however, THERE IS NOTHING INTRINSIC TO ME THAT MAKES ME DIFFERENT FROM ANY OTHER PERSON BORN IN THIS SHITTY COUNTRY REEEE
I honestly feel even PoC is dehumanizing sometimes. If I were more ethnically ambigous I would just say I'm mixed, but I just tell people I'm Mexican despite never having fucking been there because the moment they see that caramel skin the calipers come out FUCK
I don’t even think the Nazis had such a weirdly codified system of “race” as does the average US citizens.
Hitler be like yikes that's mask off to your average boater kulak american.
The Nazis actually explicitly toned down the American codified definitions of race because they were too stringent. The "one drop rule" meant that anyone in America with any provable black ancestry, literally a single black ancestor, was legally black and therefore subject to Jim Crow laws. The Nazis realized that if they applied the same standards to Germany there wouldn't be much of anyone left, including a good portion of the leadership.
Yeah ikr. And then those laws pretty much stuck around in America for 20 years after Hitler shot himself. And were only lifted after years of massive sustained protest. Shit really is wild when you lay it all out
Yup! Manifest destiny is just America's Lebensraum, again explicitly cited by Nazi leaders. Apparently wild west stuff was super popular in Germany around the turn of the century, and I always wonder how much influence that had, just as like background culture, to this
Nah he would have been like "Oh shit why didn't I think of that??" just like he did with every single genocidal idea he stole from the states.
I am not american, but it's pretty insabe looking from the outside in. Like just think about the word "Caucasian" and how it exists in the US
Yeah, it’s extremely fucked. The US was founded on human slavery and most of its economy remains dependent on forms of it.
If anything, Americans are probably some of the more tolerant people in the world when it comes to race.
This is not an opinion based in reality.
yeah, maybe your reality. Are you black or dark skinned? If not shut the fuck up.
Holy shit, lick some police state boot harder.
We just went through 2 years of seeing why Americans are not “tolerant” of race.
I’m not going to debate whether or not Americans are fucking racist with you.
:amerikkka:
This is childish and absolutely insensitive. Like, yes, i agree, death to America, but this is a thread about race and the person I was replying to talked about personal experiences. You're being an asshole.
You literally have a mod log entry “joking” about how all black people look the same. You probably shouldn’t be in this thread.
What the absolute fuck, and where'd you pull that from? I'm literally black you asshole.
From the modlog. Hope I just misread your comments. My personal experiences are not one of white americans being either “honest” or more “tolerant” of mine or anyone else’s race/ethnicity.
Either way, I’m disengaging.
The public harassment is much worse in other countries. Being "honest" about racism is much better than whatever the fuck kind of gaslighting delusional bullshit Europeans like to push.
This is like saying an “honest” nazi is better. It just lets you know which fascist you need to kill next.
:fash-bash:
You do not have to hand it to Amerikkka.
Not sure you're interpreting race in the same way as it exists generally in "the West". Ethnic supremacy and colorism exist basically everywhere, but the notion of race that originates from Euro-settler colonialism is a specific form of discrimination that goes beyond ethnicity and color.
I wouldn't worry to much about finding a consistent idea of what race people are as racists don't bother and they're the ones who get to decide who and how they're racist against.
For reference for a while the English claimed the Irish were secretly black people and in South Africa the Japanese were considered white and the Chinese weren't. Of course the Chinese used to be considered white in the 1700's but stopped once the British started selling them opium. The Spanish are white in Europe and PoC in America it's always been stupid and inconsistent. This isn't even considering the Catholic/Protestant religious and cultural differences and how they've played into it let alone non-Christian religions especially Abrahamic ones.
Trying to make sense of race and racism as an actual consistent belief will drive you mad and racists don't bother
joking here but its a bit ridiculous to call me white. i can be described as translucent with a bluish hue, or an eye hazard when in direct sunlight
and yeah i have a hispanic friend that is a bit like this. pretty pale but with a slight orangish hue, most people can tell hes hispanic but his hue gives him a lot of favors other hispanic people dont get
"Hispanic" is a US centered addition to the concept of race. Many people with lighter skin tone that are considered Hispanic in the US would be considered white anywhere else in the Americas. It was conceived of as a way to separate people that speak Spanish from the Anglo-whites in the US.
Sure, that doesn’t change the reality that Latinx people are still disproportionately discriminated against in ways that white people are not in the US. In many states, they were (and still are) subjected to racial segregation.
Concepts of race and ethnicity change across countries.
Of course, I didn't intend to imply that people categorized as Hispanic/Latine don't face discrimination, and apologies if it reads that way. I just wanted to point out it's a construct specific to the US and how that makes "white" a very mutable term
Just me spitballing here...
One of those terms is a positive affirmation and the other is a negative one.
"Person of Color" is the positive, in that it tries to communicate something that "is." While "non-white" is the negative, trying to communicate what isn't. Both can do the job of telling people around you what they may need to know, but there might be subtle cognitive cues that potentially give extra context.
There shouldn't be anything wrong with using the term, but I can imagine that at some point, you're going to have somebody (or have already) had somebody try to explain that one is better than the other. As a weird example, I've read comments going off on a person because they used the term "junk" to refer to a their own genitals.
3d old account with only 1 comment making its first post about race.
I’m sure this will end well.
:antelope-popcorn:
Cool, then you’ve been around long enough to understand why I’m like
:fry:
To this day, I have no idea if I (and all people of east asian decent) are people of color... Like are we "white" if we stay inside for a year then become "poc" when we stay out all year in the sun???
I think because of the way whiteness is prioritized there is a subconscious current that the people with lighter skin are "superior", but the layers of anti-Asian racism in society don't presently allow for them to be seen as equal. It will be interesting to see if the massive influence of Japanese and South Korean media changes anything, but the other ethnicities in East/South-East Asia would still likely be othered.
Speaking as a hwite that hates the concept of "race", I think it's probably good, it kinda challenges a normie's idea of race by being outside of the categories of "white" and "colored". On the other hand I expect you probably would have to do a lot of tiresome explaining to people who can't understand that race is social.
It annoys me to no end to see the mainstream liberal discourse on racism never challenge the concept of races as a whole; it's always the classic liberal approach of "accept the premise and work within it" instead of really identifying and unpacking the root of it.
It annoys me to no end to see the mainstream liberal discourse on racism never challenge the concept of races as a whole
Could you give some examples of this? Understanding that race is both a social construct doesn’t negate the many ongoing mechanism of systemic racism. Those need to be actively combatted, so I’m trying to understand what kind of fixes you’re suggesting.
I'm having difficulty explaining it well but borrowing from Bay_of_Piggies' reply, basically it seems like they take it as more biological than social similar to how gender commonly perceived. Like libs will say "yeah black and white people are equal" but do they know that black and white as they understand it aren't real?
The race-neutral and gender-neutral "comrade" would do nicely :thinkin-lenin:
It's important to remember (imo obv) that catagorical race perception has more to do with the perciever and how they view the percieved (you). Unfortunately, how you view yourself can only influence how others view you. Example being that I have a white friend who has extremely european ancestory, but multiple people have asked how mexican she was. POC tends to be, like all other labels, a descriptor that is useful for communicating ideas and broad concepts. POC, in my view, experience, and part of the world, tends to be used as a term to denote non-whiteness rather than a specific group with a distinct history. Ultimately it is up to you on whether or not you want to use that label. I believe that most people would agree that, given the example of the airport, you deserve the label - should you want it.
I'm Ukrainian, ethnically and culturally. While I am extremely pale skin wise, I look different, and am culturally different from those around me. Some people call me white, some don't. It's an extremely contentious topic for a lot of people. Especially where I live, we're a semi-distinct cultural group, and whether or not we're white is highly dependent on who you ask. Definitely a bit of an edge case.
