A couple of especially interesting highlights:
Soviet officials believed right away that it was an “ultraright” coup
As of 1965, KGB claimed to have data that implicated LBJ in the plot
A couple of especially interesting highlights:
Soviet officials believed right away that it was an “ultraright” coup
As of 1965, KGB claimed to have data that implicated LBJ in the plot
I think the Soviets knew exactly what was going on. The fact that they do quickly called it out as a coup attempt is pretty telling, especially because they had double agents fucking everywhere.
The LBJ thing is interesting too, I usually just hear about Bush being involved.
They actually didn't. The idea of widespread infiltration of the US by the Soviets was just American cold war propaganda. Makes it easier to drum up antagonism against communist sympathisers and the likes.
Huh, I always just thought that they had a lot of sympathizers that would feed them info for ideological reasons
LBJ was also fingered in the article I posted yesterday about E. Howard Hunt’s (CIA agent and Watergate burglar) supposed confession regarding the JFK assassination: https://web.archive.org/web/20080620083703/http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/13893143/the_last_confessions_of_e_howard_hunt/
I’ve also seen speculation that Dallas was chosen as the location in part due to LBJ’s connections there. This would make sense, but I haven’t seen much actual evidence to support that idea.
I know it's basic, but I feel like the evidence most supports the LHO as lone gunman explanation for the assassination.
That said, if it was something more conspiratorial, LBJ was absolutely in on it. The man was a sociopath, and he'd almost certainly had people who threatened his political ambitions killed in the past.
If anyone is interested in reading 2 a 2000+ page dissection of the way America is governed, as viewed through LBJ's rise to power, The Years Of Lyndon Johnson by Robert Caro is probably the best book ever written about American politics.
Unfortunately, it looks like he won't get to write the best part: a book about LBJs administration during the Vietnam war. He was supposed to have written it already, but COVID stopped his research trips to Vietnam, and Caro is in his 80s now.
^ thats the most unlikely versions of them all , the version that fits not one detail and the version the ruling class decieded upon..
It's the most likely version, actually.
okay why ?
please in details ...not vague notions..
"the answer has to be there idk stop asking questions and just believe what I tell you"
Come on man. At this point it seems like you're just deliberately being a jerk.
I don't even see how you can extract that from what I said. Everything was phrased to make it clear I was talking about my personal assessment of the evidence.
Did I ever suggest you "stop asking questions and believe what I tell you?" I mean, the majority of my original comment was about the idea that LBJ was highly involved in the assassination. What the heck?
I was being a bit of jerk there, comrade, so sorry about that. :meow-hug:
Self-Crit:
I made the snarky comment because I was annoyed that I wasn't getting the engagement that I wanted, but it's within your right to state your beliefs without defending them in a discussion, and I need to accept that. I can recall times where I've been in your shoes and didn't have the energy to debate.
Just to be clear, I am agnostic on the question of who killed JFK. I thought that was clear in my original comment, which is why I used the "I feel" phrasing, but then went on to devote the majority of the comment to the idea that LBJ was involved in the assassination plot (an idea that I view as wholely plausible)
A large part of why I didn't want to get into a massive debate with you (too late now, haha) is that my take on who shot JFK is not a strongly held position.
I'm also in the middle of all kinds of Christmas stuff right now, so I'm not able to crack out sources that dig into individual points in detail.
Anyway, I appreciate your response here, and hope you are having a good holiday and don't spend too much of it getting worked up on Hexbear. I will try to do the same.
:comrades:
That's cool, I'm glad that you're at least open-minded/agnostic about it. Yes, your original comment was perfectly clear and fine. I can empathize with having a controversial opinion that attracts debate bros like flies to a street lamp.
Merry Christmas, comrade!
You're welcome to do your own research, and draw your own conclusions. I have no interest in convincing you of anything.
dude at least link me the Warren Komission Report , what a cop out .,
lets talk intreagly about Bullet Trajectories and Oswalds wierd Biografie ?
But on a serious Note
"Why was Oswald the Shooter ?" turns the Hole affair around , does it not ? and lets it suddenly stand naked ...
heres the Parenti for the Occasion
[Off-topic] Bist du deutsch?
ich dox mich doch nich
deleted by creator
LHO tested negative for gunshot residue that day, and there were witnesses in the stairwell in the moments after the assassination who would have seen him descending (but did not). Not to mention the magic bullet, which is the only way to make a single shooter work. There was also a tree blocking his view for two of the three shots.
:this:
If you believe the Warren report the. You don't believe the standard physics model, no way a bullet cause 7 wounds changed direction mid air multiple times and remained intact after shattering a wrist bone
I’ve been listening to an audiobook of JFK and the Unspeakable and if even a sliver of what the book describes is true, it makes it very difficult to believe the official version of events.
Aside from everything else, one of the biggest things that has always stuck out to me (besides the magic bullet) is that the head wound seems entirely inconsistent with a shot from behind, and lines up much better with a shot coming from the fence/grassy knoll (since the head immediately went back and to the left). There were also witnesses who claimed they heard at least one of the gunshots coming from that area.
Related, there was a great documentary that came out this year called JFK Revisited: Through the Looking Glass that covers this and other questionable aspects of the assassination pretty well.
best scene in the Movie , "Back and to the Left" - Rewind - "Back and to the Left" .. it was full of so many details i totally forgot , but "Back and to the Left" was profund .
That's from Stone's first film on JFK, no? I haven't yet seen Through the Looking Glass.
Yep, that’s from the first JFK.
Through the Looking Glass is a full blown documentary and not a dramatization (unlike JFK), but I thought it was great and highly recommend it.
https://youtu.be/OSzszCTWFwg
My favorite scene of any movie. I was on the edge of my seat with my eyes glued to every frame. Every piece of the movie is threaded together in that climax :chefs-kiss: .
This copy is better quality I think.
spoiler
"Ten to twelve men. Three teams. Three shooters. The triangulation of fire that Clay Shaw and David Ferrie discussed two months before..."
spoiler
THEY'VE WALKED THE PLAZA.
spoiler
THEY KNOW EVER INCH.
spoiler
THEY'VE CALIBRATED THEIR SIGHTS.
spoiler
THEY'VE PRACTICED ON MOVING TARGETS.
spoiler
THEY'RE READY!
spoiler
KENNEDY'S MOTORCADE MAKES THE TURN FROM MAIN ONTO HOUSTON.
spoiler
IT'S GONNA BE A TURKEY SHOOT.
spoiler
They don't shoot him coming up Houston, WHICH IS THE EASIEST SHOT FOR A SINGLE SHOOTER IN THE BOOK DEPOSITORY!
spoiler
THEY WAIT!
spoiler
THEY WAIT UNTIL HE GETS IN THE KILLING ZONE BETWEEN THREE RIFLES.
spoiler
KENNEDY MAKES THE FINAL TURN FROM HOUSTON ONTO ELM, SLOWING DOWN TO SOME 11 MILES AN HOUR.
spoiler
The shooters across Dealey Plaza tighten, taking their aim, waiting for the radio to say
"GREEN! GREEN!" or "ABORT! ABORT!"...
:shrek-pixel-despair:
The witnesses are often overlooked. If there were one or two outlier witnesses who claimed to hear something from the knoll that would be one thing ("chaos of the moment" blah blah blah), but it was like FIFTY fucking people who claimed they heard shots there, by far the majority. On amateur footage you can even see groups of people rushing over to the knoll to investigate.
The need for a "magic bullet" misunderstands the layout of the car itself. It wasn't a standard car with standard seating- JFK's seat was offset in an unusual position for the sake of emphasizing him vs the other occupants of the car.
Assuming you're correct for a moment and the unusual seating position is sufficient to explain the bizarre locations of the seven bullet wounds, there is still the matter of timing. Kennedy can be seen grasping at his throat wound for several moments in the film while Connally's wrist is still unharmed. This is a problem because the same bullet is supposed to have caused both wounds (throat and wrist) in the single shooter theory.
Also, I'm curious where you found that explanation; I'd like to check it out. The source wouldn't happen to be the History Channel, would it? I remember seeing a lot of assassination documentaries on there.
I honestly don't fully remember where I saw that, but I do remember seeing it in multiple places.
Sorry, I know that's really unhelpful
That's okay, comrade. If you happen to remember or see it in the future, send it my way.
This stuff has all been hashed out at length and there have been MASSIVE books written on the subject, both for and against. At this point, anyone can find mountains of evidence to support whatever POV they want.
That's intellectually lazy tbh. You'll find that a lot of this stuff actually doesn't have a proper response to it. It's just dealt with by ignoring the question entirely, gaslighting, or repeating a different set of talking points to make you forget it.
It's not "intellectually lazy" to think we aren't going to finally settle this debate that's been ongoing for almost 60 years in this forum thread.
I'm familiar with the points you raised, and personally found them unconvincing, but I'm not interested in writing a massive essay about it here, especially because as I said, that essay has already been written a thousand times.
Evolution is settled science but the debate over it will continue indefinitely because there exist people for which it is completely incompatible with their belief system.
In a similar fashion, the debate over JFK will continue for so long as the current power structure remains in place in America, because admitting to complicity in state crimes against democracy would completely undermine the legitimacy of their claim to power.
With that closing remark, I'm happy to disengage like you suggested, comrade.
Sometimes people can be wrong about a subject for a long time. People still think Socialism is bad, guess we can't disagree!
What are you talking about? Thats not even close to relevant.
The point isn't that the issue can never be settled, it's that I personally don't want to argue about it. But I guess you really had to "score some points" huh?
Why did you bring this stupid bullshit up if you didn't want to talk about it?
It was a one sentence aside in a comment about LBJ. Get over it.
No investigation, no right to speak.
The magic bullet theory is easily addressed by the knowledge that Connally was sitting on a jumper seat that was lower and more inboard than Kennedy
That doesn't address the timing issues, as I explained here.
Edit: Do you remember where you heard or read that?
I saw it on a documentary like 20 years ago (maybe on Discovery?) but you can also see it by googling "kennedy limousine seats"
I had a strong feeling that this came from a documentary that aired on the History or Discovery Channel. The CIA has produced several MSM documentaries over the decades to prop up the Warren Commission. One of them even had me fooled until a few years ago.
okay bro
:pigpoop:
"attempt"
Yeah, it was very successful. Basically the Business Plot finally coming to fruition.