Any experienced guitar players have advice on how to learn better?

I played very little in highschool and now, 15 years later, I have the urge to go back to it. I've been playing for an hour or so most days for the last month which I know isn't a lot but lets be honest, it's just for my own enjoyment, I have no illusions of being a middle aged rock star.

Anyway I was wondering if people had any advice, good resources, sheet music that isn't garbage?

In my position would you go the self taught route or is it really important to have a tutor? I'm particularly concerned about picking up bad technique and then practicing that, I feel like that was a big part of why I gave up in the first place - fucking up the same things no matter how many times I did them because I learned them wrong.

Thanks all.

  • TheOtherwise [none/use name]
    ·
    edit-2
    5 months ago

    If you're not already usuing a metronome and formally practicing scales and picking tehcniques (as opppsed to just playing), then doing so should help you see improvement.

    • AlkaliMarxist
      hexagon
      ·
      5 months ago

      No just playing so far, but I will start to put aside some time for exercises. Thanks.

  • IDontHavePantsOn@lemm.ee
    ·
    5 months ago

    I can't tell you what's right or wrong but in my opinion, learn songs you like for a while. The first rule is to have fun.

    Pretty much every song's chords are available online so you can start slowly by strumming along to any song. If that becomes boring or tedious for whatever reason try singing along while playing.

    Try using your ear to play the melody on a single note. You shouldn't be trying to sound amazing at first, because really, even after years of playing no one feels satisfied with how they sound. You should be building your dexterity, training your ear, pushing your talent, and as always, having fun.

    There's going to be a bunch of technique snobs everywhere in every community of anything. Guitar is one of those things.

    After 2 years of playing I realized I was holding my pick "wrong". I re-trained myself with a "correct" technique within a week. A couple years later I found a new technique of holding the pick. Again, within a week I was able to play everything I could previously while holding the pick in a dramatically different way.

    Technique is something you can pick up along the way. Yes, if you practice "proper" technique from the start you will be better off, but that's only if you continue playing. Playing in a regimented fashion where you must play "properly" often times turns people away from playing at all.

    All of this depends on what you actually want to do with the guitar and what your goals are.

    Is it to be able to play along with some of your favorite songs? Is there a certain skill level you want to attain? Do you want to focus on lead, or rhythm?

    I, for example, wanted to play the entirity of Crazy Train. I thought that as long as I could play that, I would be happy. After I learned Crazy Train, I figured, if I could play whatever note I heard in my head I would be happy. Then it was whatever phrase or riff I was hearing in my head. Then it was jamming. My practice of learning songs, paired with some very basic dexterity exercises got me beyond what my initial goal was.

    That said, a good guitar teacher being there one on one will absolutely accelerate your learning. They should be asking you a lot of these same questions and directing you accordingly. More importantly than anything though, they should be making sure you're having fun. Fun gets done. Chores get ignored.

    • AlkaliMarxist
      hexagon
      ·
      5 months ago

      Thanks for the advice. Totally feel you on fun vs. chore and I'm very much trying to be mindful of keeping things fun.

      The frustration I have with online chords/tabs is that I can find 10 different sources with 10 totally different transcriptions of the same song, and I've definitely seen some examples of badly transcribed songs where they are very hard to play and sound off when you do play them and then I've found a different version and it just sounds right with a fraction the effort. I guess it can be discouraging when you think it's your skill level that's holding you back in getting a sound or tune you like but it turns out it way your reference material. Still I know I have to kill the perfectionist in my head, because I do enjoy the experience regardless.

      Really I just want to be able to reproduce some of the beautifully rhythms and cool sounds that make me love to listen to music, like singing along to a song on the radio, just projecting your love of a song out into the world. Makes it feel like it's part of you, ya know? It's not my goal to do, like, super technical lead or anything - more like just me and the guitar is enough to make music, like Neil Young or Johnny Cash - and be able to just pick up new stuff quickly so I can play what I'm passionate about.

      The idea of playing all of Crazy Train is absolutely wild to me though, I would never dare to dream that big but that'd be something!

      I appreciate it though, pushing through the self-doubt is gonna matter as much or more than any particular technique.

      • IDontHavePantsOn@lemm.ee
        ·
        edit-2
        5 months ago

        I understand your frustration and want you to know my completely personal opinion but I'm going to explain it through my own experiences.

        As every aspiring lead guitarist does, I loved Van Halen. Their verses and choruses weren't very hard to learn once I got the basics down, but obviously the solos would have to come later. Anyway, I loved "Ain't talkin bout love". I found some tabs and learned the intro after a week and I had it down. It never sounded perfect but it was super fun to play.

        A couple years later I found that the tabs I learned were entirely "wrong" from someone who learned it the way EVH actually played it. That guy thought the way I played it was way cooler than the way he played it. All the notes were the same but it was more technical and apparently more impressive looking, and he wished he could play it that way I did.

        There are so many ways to play every song note for note, but only one way to play it "correctly". That correct way may be easy, or it may be hard, but if it sounds good, it is good. The wrong way can make you a better player and sometimes learning "wrong" can be a good thing.

        If it's so hard that you are getting frustrated, you can always bench it for later, find easier ways to play it, find more technique based lessons on how to play it, or break it into smaller parts and practice those small pieces until you have the dexterity.

        Another opinion of mine that Marty Friedman said best is "learning a song perfectly is a hobbyist's goal." There's so much nuance to every guitar players style that there's little chance you will ever sound exactly like them. Even the greatest guitarists can only get close to emulating another great guitar players sound. If you focus on sounding perfect, you most likely won't progress very far and it won't happen very quickly. The concepts are key.

        Learn to strum the chords, doesnt have to be perfectly strummed. If it's a G-C-D progression, even if it's fingerprinted, just strum along. Maybe add some embellishments. Maybe use your ear to add some harmony, or try to come up with your own chord shapes.

        As for self doubt, you're most likely going to have to live with it, so get used to it. Are you going to be the next EVH, Hammet, Rhoads, Yngwie, Tosin, Holdsworth, Guthrie, or Lane? Most likely not. They're freaks of nature. Can you make beautiful, insane, creative music that is all your own and exactly what you want to hear? Absolutely. You'll likely even surprise yourself with how good you get when you let the pressure of being perfect go.

        The fact that you even asked about how to get better shows you want more, and you're willing to ask the questions to get there. If any of this sounds patronizing I apologize and don't mean it as such. I just don't know what level you're at with your playing and knowledge, but I wish you the best, and if you have any questions about anything guitar related you can feel free to message me and ask. 🙂

        • AlkaliMarxist
          hexagon
          ·
          5 months ago

          Hey, sorry about late reply, didn't have a lot of time lately and I wanted to be able to take your post in properly before responding.

          I totally get what you're saying though, while all the advice I got is great and very appreciated I think I also needed people to just tell me to go for it and maybe make some mistakes. So that I knew I wasn't missing some "right" way to do things.

          So thanks for typing that up, definitely taken in a positive spirit, not patronizing at all. I've got a bit more confidence to just get stuck in now and worry less about doing it wrong. I'll be back if I have some more specific questions later on though.

  • Carguacountii [none/use name]
    ·
    5 months ago

    Hi, I would really reccomend trying 'classical' guitar, if you can afford it.

    To me its analogous to learning to draw, then paint, then using software to make pictures - its fine to start anywhere, but where you start will shape your understanding of the other media and all aspects of the subject. Like 'brushes' in software are rooted in (although deviate from) brushes in oil or acrylic etc. So, if you start with the basics, you'll more easily develop a more comprehensive understanding of the subject as a whole.

    Basically, acoustic (steel string) or electric guitar, with picks or strumming by hand, are not the fundamentals of guitar, but rather so-called 'fingerstyle', that is in our times most commonly using a nylon string (and some metal coated bass strings) 'classical' guitar. All other modern techniques evolve from that (and earlier, the lute I think). Of course, they have their own styles and developments and techniques, but these are not the fundamentals, they're deviations due to developments of the instrument.

    Classical guitar is easier to play in some ways, beacuse the strings are softer. A pick, while it can produce complex motions with practice, is not as dextrous as your fingers (again, with practice). A lot of classical sheet music, professionally produced, is available for all levels of skill, sometimes for free because of its age. There are also a lot of styles to try, from all across Europe and European settler states, which incorporate different musical traditions. In my experience, at least where I live, its harder (but not impossible) to find adaptations from the rest of the world however (like East Asia, where they have the lap guitar/harp instead, at least traditionally).

    In comparison, its very hard to find 'classic rock' music accurately transcribed, and cheaply, and also its a lot more difficult to translate such music to a single guitar without broad approximations that for me at least make it frustrating to play. That is, a lot of music from that era uses effects that are achievable with a satisfactory level of fidelity only if you have a particular type of guitar, amp, pedals, and studio, or a full band. Further, I think that 'fingerstyle' classical guitar is able to reproduce such sounds better than 'strumming' and even metal string guitars, beacuse its easier, or more achievable, to play both rythym and melody, and even more than one melody at once. The techniques that are learnt from 'fingerstyle' guitar make many techniques unique to electric or 'acoustic' guitars much easier to comprehend and pick up, I think. Also, a classical guitar using fingerstyle technique is better for adaptations from other instruments like piano, in that it can more faithfully replicate the music compared to other guitars.

    Everybody learns differently to some degree, and I'm not sure my own experience would be useful to you (I'm entirely self-taught from a family with zero musical ability of any kind, can't remember any piece by heart, and I don't read sheet music and can't 'play by ear'), but if you have any specific questions I can try to answer them. Seemingly, modern guitar education doesn't anymore emphasise rigid styles or techniques or approaches, but encourages the user to develop their own approach, if it works its good. This makes sense, because everybody's hands are slightly different and also shaped by their occupations etc, so there isn't really a one-size approach possible. I wouldn't worry about picking up 'bad technique' so much, you will know its bad if its not letting you transistion fast or smoothly enough between positions, or if it hurts, or if it sounds bad and isn't getting better with practice (beyond just usual muscle development ache or calous development I mean, i.e. fixable by rest).

    If you were to go down the nylon-string route, don't get the cheapest possible one as it will dissapoint, but also don't get an expensive one, I'm not sure of price conversion but I would reccomend circa £200-300, and to go to a small/dedicated store and ask because they usually have people working there who play and aren't (usually) trying to con you, so you can ask them and let them know that you have a budget and they, being enthusiasts, will try to help you (though some can be very snobbish, which can be a problem).

    In terms of resources, tab books for guitar (even 'classical') can be expensive (but are usually of good quality, more so for 'classical' guitar, and are arranged according to experience - basic, intermediate, advanced etc), and I 'expropriated' some instead, however I will have a look and get back to you because I did also find some sites that had some for free of a reasonable quality (which I've never found for 'rock' or pop music). I will see if any of the book pirate sites have uploaded any too.

    In terms of learning, as above, this might not apply to you or be useful as everyone learns differently to a degree, however;

    When I was first learning, I dedicated a period of time to just practicing transitioning between chords over and over, sometimes strumming and sometimes plucking up or down (broken chords I mean), to make my fingers learn (like sports), before attempting to play any particular piece. Now, I play particular pieces I'm familiar with to warm up, and then move onto something I'm trying to learn. I don't spend a huge amount of time on one piece, but change to others if I hit a point where I'm not immediately progressing (you solve a lot of problems by sleeping on them, so I don't try overly hard on one particular thing). I started with simple pieces for begginners, but also at the same time tried more advanced ones or parts of them for some time to avoid boredom and too narrow a focus (like with sports, you practice the basics but also try cool stuff at the same time).

    Now (though this is a result of previous practice), when approaching a piece I don't know (which with classical pieces is most because I don't really like listening to classical music, except some 'folk' styles of it), I start by not listening, but instead trying to go through the tab as I read it - I don't really understand beats per minute or those kind of things - I kind of infer the general idea from how the tab is laid out. I play it through (once you've practiced enough, you start to be familiar with common 'fingerings' and right-hand sequences), and identify any difficult transitions or unusual positions. Then, I break it up into parts based on that, without trying to improve the difficult parts, but get the easy parts sorted so they flow (again, ignoring for now the correct tempo). Then once that's sorted, I go to the difficult parts, and try to play the whole piece over and over, until the difficult parts are gradually sorted. Then finally, once its all somewhat smooth, I listen to the actual music online and then adjust what I was playing if there are any differences. A lot of the time, I play a piece (even a simple one) slower or faster, even to extremes, than intended, because I find it helps learning.

    Playing 'fingerstyle' guitar was a lot more satisfying and rewarding, because you can reproduce melody and rhythm more easily, and I found early on that just strumming chords was a bit underwhealming and fingerstyle on acoustic is not a good way to learn it - picks are used for good reason. But then, having mostly played fingerstyle, when trying acoustic or electric, those mostly don't feel particularly difficult (with some particular styles being the exception). Transcriptions of classic rock into fingerstyle also sound much better imo than those for acoustic guitar, and sometimes than those for electric, since most rock songs have the electric do just a lead line and rely on a bass and rhythm guitar and drums for the rest.

    I hope some of this helps, but I might find it easier to answer specific questions, rather than a general one if you see what I mean. Above all, don't worry about being good, or see it competatively, music is cooperative like any human pursuit, even if playing alone - like the whole 'standing on the shoulders of giants' thing you're always playing with the dead in a hopefully not morbid way - maybe its better to say playing alongside our human ancestors. Its a lifelong 'hobby' really, and like anything worthwhile it takes time and practice, but comparing progress to others (especially those in the music 'industry') won't help.

    • AlkaliMarxist
      hexagon
      ·
      5 months ago

      Hey, really interesting to read your perspective. Some stuff here that's different to what other said and a bit different than my intuition, but your reasoning also totally makes sense to me. Both the lack of printed music and the fact that rock music relies on having a full band to create a full sound is something I've found frustrating in the past - even if I could play just like Paul McCartney, I still couldn't sound like the Beatles.

      The idea that fingerstyle/nylon strings represents the fundamentals is something I'd have been inclined to write off as (no offence, just laying out my thought process) elitism, but I cannot deny there is truth to the idea that the guitar was, historically, designed to be played that way. There are plenty of fingerstyle players in rock that I really like and am in awe of too. I mentioned elsewhere Knopfler's riff in Money for Nothing, but I believe that's a fingerstyle riff, and playing it with pick is impossible.

      Your description of how you went about learning is also helpful, particularly reducing boredom and breaking through "plateaus" with pieces.

      When you say acoustic is not a good way to learn fingerstyle, is that because of the physical difficulty of playing the heavier and more abrasive strings? I am interested in learning fingerstyle in general, as you say being able to play rhythm and melody, or multiple melodies seems like a real boon, but I don't know if I want to go all the way and buy a nylon string guitar given that the kinds of sounds that inspire me to play come from the steel string.

      Another question for you is how did you keep your motivation up at the beginning, playing music that (from what you say) you didn't have much existing passion for?

      And yes, being a part of an social, cultural legacy of producing music - connecting us to just about every other human who ever lived - is such a cool idea. I love music and as I get older I realize I don't want to spend my whole life without making it.

      So thank you for writing that up. Some stuff there I never would have thought of, stuff I'll have to mull over.

      • Carguacountii [none/use name]
        ·
        5 months ago

        No problem!

        Your first point is one reason that I'd reccomend 'fingerstyle', because I've personally found that you can play 'the beatles' with higher fidelity with one guitar using that technique, than with a pick on steel string, simply because transcriptions for fingerstyle expect you to imitate both rhythm and melody aspects - this is true of rock and pop music. You can't play Blackbird by strumming chords and have it sound good enough that you want to play it, and while you can't get the exact studio sound from one guitar, you can get a lot closer with 'fingerstyle'. Even duets, like Dire Straits Sultans of Swing (I think is two guitars I might have the wrong one) can be somewhat accurately produced on one guitar with fingerstyle, compared to the alternative. Of course, it will always have the usual 'nylon string' sound, but again, starting from nylon means you can fingerstyle on acoustic (for limited periods at least before it hurts too much). In the case of songs that are just chords, you can with fingerstyle technique turn them into something more complex and interesting. I've found that singers find being accompanied by fingerstyle somewhat easier too, since it often gives better note and timing cues/calibrations, compared to multi-note rhythm chords.

        I see what you mean about elitism, I should clarify my terms - while the nylon string guitar is called 'classical', really I don't mean 'classical' music, there is a huge range of music that isn't 18th/19th century orchestral pieces that is commonly played on nylon strings, such as Spanish, Portuguese, Balkans, Greek, Irish, and so on, more kind of 'folk' music, not so much the conservatoire of the European elites. And even with traditionally 'classical' in the common sense of the term, theres a fair amount like the Baroque period, or Bach for example, written for Lute (which is very close to nylon string guitar). And also, as I mentioned, replicating piano or even violin and wind instrument pieces is easier with fingerstyle than with a pick. Its more accurate to describe it as 'fingerstyle', and I do think that broadly speaking its a more versatile method than using a pick and an acoustic or electric, since those are recent inventions and we've been using 'fingerstyle' for a lot longer.

        Yes, I mean the 'acoustic' strings exactly, they're harder, but also a nylon stringed guitar has the strings and frets placed further apart (to accomodate fingers rather than a narrower pick), and there are some other differences in the neck and other pieces, all of which are tailored to the style. You can play fingerstyle on an acoustic but it tends to be harder not being built for the style - although I would be surprised if you couldn't find acoustics built with that style in mind, since electric guitars vary in string placement for styles, though I haven't looked. I understand not wanting to buy another guitar, but it will be more challenging to learn fingerstyle without a nylon string. However, there are players who produce very complex results with picks, it isn't necessarily such a barrier, or combinations of picks and thumb (for the bass line), and also finger attachments you can buy that are essentially plastic nails so that you can pick on a steel string (though again, string placement will make this more difficult even with such picks, and it also is a style in and of itself to learn).

        In terms of keeping up motivation, I acquired a wide range of different materials, including transcriptions of music styles that I was a lot more into, but also including those that I wasn't so into in terms of listening, so that if I got too bored I could switch to an entire different style. I'd reccomend (again, budget permitting) getting materials for jazz, pop, rock, folk (of differrent kinds and traditions, like Spanish, Samba etc etc), classical 'elite', and so on, becasue 'variety is the spice of life' and it both helps you improve and keeps interest up, and even a favourite song will get tedious if its all you know or play. I also didn't treat it like a kind of structured or targeted thing (some of my favourite songs I can't play on guitar, because I can't find good transcriptions or because a single guitar just can't replicate them), or give myself particular goals or times, but that does work for some people. Its sort of different enjoying listening to something vs playing it sucecssfully - sort of like if you hate watching golf and even the idea of it, you'd still be pleased with yourself if you learnt how to get a hole in one or whatever its called. Or even if you hate soccer, but you learnt how to do a backflip kick and score with it. Or if you find sculpture fundamentally boring, but learnt to produce a lifelike bronze horse or something. I suppose I'm interested in the process/mechanics/technique, so that I don't mind so much what the aesthetics of the result is - I'll happily play songs that I would never listen to, as long as they have something interesting about the arrangement that isn't just strumming three chords if you see what I mean. But then I don't sing, which I think is where it becomes fine to just strum chords, because you've got two instruments so it can be more complex.

        I think fingerstyle helped me keep up motivation, because of the wider array and complexity of the techniques being learned, compared to strumming which I started with but was hard to keep interest in, like I said because its harder to reproduce music satisfactorily, and also because there is a limit (to a degree, there are advanced techniques like rhythm flamenco too) to learning once you've got rythm guitar nailed.

        Music is a very good pursuit for your whole life, since you get better with age, compared to lots of sports where you inevitably decline to the point where it becomes somewhat pointless. The best players I've seen have been completely outside the music industry (either elite or pop), playing traditional music in street cafes, and have always been very old, just playing with friends.

        • AlkaliMarxist
          hexagon
          ·
          5 months ago

          Question, do you grow out your fingernails?

          • Carguacountii [none/use name]
            ·
            5 months ago

            I can't, not to the extent I think you mean like with some professional players, because of my work - I'd break a lot of nails!

            What I do is let them grow sort of longer than somebody who doesn't at all, and it means that I experience a kind of cycle of playing - when they're short I have to adjust and use fingertips, and when they're longer I get a louder sound and can do certain more 'aggressive' styles easier. But it makes it a slightly different play style depending on how long they've grown. Also, I think those players grow their nails so long also shape them to be more pointed than normal, but I'm not sure. Broadly speaking, it isn't necesarry for most styles of playing, and you can satisfactorally approximate the ones where its most common without doing it. With a steel string, I would buy the plastic fingertip things rather than relying on nails, or just play quieter.

            • AlkaliMarxist
              hexagon
              ·
              5 months ago

              Ah, cool. Yeah I was just feeling out how necessary it was. I'm guess some styles and sounds it's more beneficial, others it matters less. I like to keep them quite short though as a matter of preference.

              Cheers.

        • AlkaliMarxist
          hexagon
          ·
          5 months ago

          You've pretty much sold me on it to be honest. I mean I knew I wanted to learn fingerstyle one day, and I'll continue picking as part of my practice, but starting tomorrow I'm going to add some fingerstyle. I love the idea of going wide with "classical" styles too, I hadn't considered just how broad the pool of musical genres and traditions under that heading is, I just kinda lumped it all in as "classical (as in Euros with powdered wigs)" and "Spanish" which in retrospect is pretty silly. I love the idea of having more variety and more genres with which to play and having access to the teaching traditions and printed material available to those genres would be an advantage.

          As for getting a nylon string guitar... I'll have look at it! I must admit I'm quite attached to the sound of the steel string but you've got me curious enough to at least try.

          My Dad got me into music, he's a self taught guitarist and he just played around the house or with friends, I played with him when I was young. He loves music and played music he loves. I said in another comment he's unfortunately getting arthritis in his hands but I totally get what you mean. Making music is an amazing thing, no matter who or how or where.

          • Carguacountii [none/use name]
            ·
            5 months ago

            Even if you don't get a nylon string, you can start with breaking up chords on the steel string - start with just playing the notes up and down (in pitch) in a row, then change the chord varient (like C major to C7 etc) and do the same, then start trying more complicated patterns. A basic one is just to play the bass note first (with thumb) and then the rest as a chord, or broken up. Try playing songs you know chords to, with the same timing, but broken up into individual notes. You can also try reducing the amount of notes in a chord, like strum most as usual, then pluck a two or three note chord for some to give it a different pattern. A lot of melodies and so-called 'riffs' are just broken up chords anyways.

            Yes, there is a huge amount of different traditions, and with very different styles, both in rhythm and melody, it keeps you interested and its a nice feeling to learn something completely different, like if you're used to blues to learn for example 'latin' or arabic styles. Unfortunately you then end up encountering different tunings and it gets complicated... though you also encounter that with Country.

            I can understand the love for the steel string, its a very nice sound, especially for 'Americana' kind of genres like blues and country. Of course, there's plenty of Americana that will sound just as good on a nylon, like Guthrie for example, and a personal favourite (though advanced in terms of techniques) is Leo Kottke.

            Its good to continue your familial tradition! Although sad to hear of the athritis, I'm sure he's proud to see you picking it up again!

            • AlkaliMarxist
              hexagon
              ·
              5 months ago

              Yeah, I've been trying to learn Neil Young's Old Man, which has a lot of broken chords (I think I'm using that term right) with some variants added. I think that one is a bit beyond me at this stage but I'll give what you suggest a try and see how my skills develop.

              I think nylon fits quite well with the "folk revival" sound, which Guthrie definitely fits under. I wasn't familiar with Leo Kottke before but I just had a listen to Vaseline Machine Gun and WOW! Very cool.

              Its good to continue your familial tradition! Although sad to hear of the athritis, I'm sure he's proud to see you picking it up again!

              Thanks for this, I think that he is proud. I'll definitely have to thank him when I see him next though. I certainly didn't appreciate how lucky I was to have that kind of influence until recently.

              • Carguacountii [none/use name]
                ·
                edit-2
                5 months ago

                So, I don't know how to play that song, but I just watched him perform a bit of it on youtube... I don't think he's using broken chords (I mean by this arppegios, or when you break the chord up into multiple more separate notes, in the same way that when you strum a chord you sound the bass first, or the treble first in reverse, and it continues ringing with the slightly later notes - but more slowed down or in a different sequence to the one you get when you strum, which is achievable when you pick instead of strumming - I hope this makes sense). The chords are broken in the sense that he changes their notes (and therefore the chord) partway through, but he's still using the full chord each time in the sequence you get when you strum really.

                He seems to be strumming throughout, but achieving a more complex pattern by 'hammer-ons' and 'pull-offs' and also some degree of differing emphasis (via the right hand) on striking bass and treble strings with differing force (like when he goes to the G7, he emphasises the bass a lot more). I haven't checked the tab, but from what I could see he uses hammer-ons/pull-offs a lot on the D and C, which is common because they're a lot easier to use on those chords due to the fingerings.

                If I were going to learn that song, I'd first omit all the more complex techniques, and focus on a slowed-down correct strumming pattern, and transitioning between the chords smoothly - perhaps starting with a much more basic strum pattern to get transitions and timing correct first. Then I'd try to learn the hammer-ons and pull-offs (if you don't already know them, this is where your left hand, usually one finger, changes the chord by lifting off a note or pressing on a different one mid-note - you can practice this best by starting with one note, and plucking it once letting it ring, then lifting your finger off the fret and putting it back, to get a feel of the sound change and basic idea), and start by just holding the D chord, and finding all the changes you can make to it using those techniques - like if you lift your middle finger off the second fret on the highest pitch string during a strum, you get Dsus2 (I think thats the right name) and if you put your little finger onto the third fret on the same string (hold the usual D shape with your other fingers so you can lift it off again and change it back to D) you get Dsus4 (I think). Or you can lift your second smallest finger from the third fret (forgot its name) and get D6, and there are others of course, but while holding one chord like he's doing you can produce a complex pattern even if you're strumming rather than picking. From what I could see, he's doing a lot of this in that song. You'll also see that when he's doing the more complicated stuff, he doesn't sing and has to look, but when he's singing, he's strumming more basically - for obvious reasons.

                Once I was happy with the smooth transition between chords (and knowing the chord fingerings themselves), the basic strum pattern, and the ability to add or remove notes to chords, I'd try to put it all together one part at a time and work up. But I would try all the separate parts first. At that stage, I'd not stop or fixate on a part I was getting wrong, but try to get the whole song through even with mistakes, even with slow downs or at the wrong temp, then maybe go back to parts again to get them better, then back to the whole song even with mistakes, if you see what I mean. And if I was getting annoyed, I'd try one more time, then drop it for something else.

                Keep in mind as well, that every chord shape can be moved down the fretboard by 1 fret to make the next chord in sequence - D to Dsharp or E and so on - although you will need to change (add, or omit by muting the string) the notes that are left 'open' when the chord is in its usual top of the fretboard position. He does that in this song with the C shape, which he moves down the fretboard to get a different chord.

                If you liked Kottke, check the song 'morning is a long way home' (this is on 12 string)!

                edit: it's d6 not d7... apologies

                • AlkaliMarxist
                  hexagon
                  ·
                  5 months ago

                  I think I know what you mean by broken chords, in his case I was referring to the way his strumming pattern grabs only part of each chord of each strum, so downstrum the whole chord, then upstrum only catching the high 2 strings, then down grabbing the low 3 stings creating that texture where he's playing only one chord by each beat he gets a distinct sound from it. It's not quite the same thing though.

                  And yeah I saw the hammers ons, I can do them super slow but even at a low tempo I just get a bit overwhelmed. Ah, that's what practice is for though.

                  I'll keep in mind what you said too about playing the whole song through, mistakes and all. I have a bad habit I need to break where I screw up and immediately stop and go back and I think it does make it harder to learn because you aren't getting used to the "flow" of the music.

                  I remember that from before with moving up and down the fretboard. It's something I think is pretty cool about guitar in particular.

                  Kottke is great, I can't believe I'd never heard him. He plays like he was three guys.

                  • Carguacountii [none/use name]
                    ·
                    edit-2
                    5 months ago

                    Ah ok got it, yes that for the right hand will be precision that comes from practice, something you have to make your hand learn by repetition (I saw that he keeps his hand very close to the guitar, the movements aren't big except on certain chords, so I expect this is a way to achieve that control by forcing some of the movements to be smaller on the upstroke). But, since I'm not good with picks at all, if I had to approach it, I think I would try to replicate it if using a pick by using the left hand, muting the strings I didn't want played in a given chord on a beat. Its something worth practicing in any case, left hand (and right hand - 'palm muting' which he may be doing some of given how close his hand is to the strings, but sticking with left for now) muting - you can achieve it by maintaining less pressure on a given string at a fret, so it doesn't sound properly (but not so little pressure that it makes an annoying sound). You can apply this to neighbouring strings with a finger, by pressing on the string you want to ring, and sort of flattening the rest of your finger a bit in the direction of the string you want to mute, so it presses one and also covers another (sort of counter-intuitive to how you're supposed to want to use your fingers, i.e. very precisely pressing). For chords that don't use one or more bass string, you can curl your thumb around the other side of the fretboard to mute those.

                    With hammer-ons, don't worry about it being slow to start. Again, with 'classical' guitar, Baroque music happens to have a ridiculous (over) use of them, called 'trills', where they shove a hammer-on pull-off combo onto the end of so many parts, and its a good way to practice them, by taking any given individual note and repeatedly hammering on or off to produce that kind of 'trill'. A good riff to practice them is the intro to 'Layla', because minus the effects its quite simple, so you can slow it down to start with and build up to the correct speed.

                    Another useful thing about other genres (including classical) is that playing them teaches different timings, since most music of the genre you're talking about is in 4/4, and it helps to understand that timing by also using different ones, like 6/8 or waltz etc.

                    Here is another area where I think 'fingerstyle' helps more, because you're playing individual strings, you kind of 'hear' and 'feel' better the effects of hammer-ons or offs compared to incorporating them into strumming patterns. I mean that your brain is, I think, better able to get what you're trying to do, because the chord + strum is comparatively 'chaotic' or a finished product, whereas with individual notes, you're showing your brain the building blocks first, so to speak.

                    On playing the whole song through - its partly to get a sense of the broader 'flow' of the music, but its also so that your brain doesn't get backed into a corner with a specific problem that it (or it in combo with your fingers) isn't currently able to solve, so I think its best to move on from persistant roadblocks to give your brain something it can solve (an easier part) to prevent it getting too frustrated. While you're sorting the easier parts, your brain will still be working on the greater problem, but the easy parts may help it with a new perspective on the difficult bit, I hope that makes sense. So its good to switch back and forth, and also give your brain a sleep cycle to make progress on a particularly difficult roadblock. Again, switching styles (genres, and ways of playing) helps because the differences will help your brain work out the roadblock, give it new ways to approach the problem, and keep it from getting too frustrated and giving up or going too far down a 'wrong' path solution. Brains need sensory data, the more the better, to solve problems. Of course, going back to a difficult part multiple times isn't a terrible idea, because it also teaches your brain that its a crucial problem that must be solved, as long as you're not getting frustrated or fatigued with it.

                    One thing I remembered that somebody told me, applicable to pick users, is to try to practice a pattern when picking individual notes, of alternating each string. So you'd play the E string (bass) with a down pick stroke, and the next string (A) with an up pick stroke, and so on. I was told this is a good habit to force yourself to learn (it'll be slow at first) because it will allow for greater speed and finesse later on, if you're picking out notes in a riff or chord for example.

                    A final note on theory - you often get people tell you that its crucial to learn this stuff. I wouldn't disagree, and I think theory can help you 'shortcut' some stuff that might take longer to appreciate by 'doing', and also give you a better understanding of the subject as a whole, which will no doubt be useful for the 'doing' part.

                    However, personally (and I don't want to contradict hundreds of years of accumulated knowledge here), I wouldn't overemphasise it. I've never tried to learn music theory in a formal sense, just picked bits up here and there from general reading, but mostly its just intuited from playing. Like I learnt chord shapes, and some scales, but I found out that there isn't really a 'D Scale' but rather arrangements of notes in sequences to create patterns that is dependent on style and cultural tradition - that is, most music theory is basically aesthetic, not ontological. Like you don't need to learn theory to paint, but there are certainly colour arrangements that people have proposed as 'canon' or recommendations, to create an aesthetic they find pleasing (like with fashion). But of course, it isn't really a hard and fast thing, and in fact different cultures have their own aesthetic rules - like a minor scale or chord in Western European tradition is considered 'sad' or 'meloncholy' but in other places (some of Eastern Europe and Balkans) it can be considered the opposite - happy and uplifting, or celebratory. People argue over the correct tuning (in hertz) of the A string.

                    It brings to mind for me when Ho Chi Min apparantly remarked about peasants in his country having a far better grasp of communist ideas than French intellectuals (I think this is correct, I may be misremembering) - because those peasants were doing, while the French intellectuals (aside from usually being fools) were just theorizing. Or a recent case, where a tiler discovered a particular pattern of tiles that eluded theoretical mathemeticians and was considered too difficult to solve, and of course the articles written about the breakthrough had a sort of "oh a talking dog" tone about the tiler, but really the tiler by doing understood geometry better than a theoretician.

                    So I don't want to dismiss it, and there is value in it, but I wouldn't worry too much about learning music theory (again, often what is meant is Western European theory - for example Jazz theory was a reaction against that classical teaching) if you don't enjoy it - you can always come back to it, and it isn't necessary to learn to play and get good at playing. The best way to learn imo is with a guitar, not with books about guitars.

                    I did intitally try in this reply to write you an exercise for hammer ons & offs plus descending bass line, but I think the formatting was causing issues so it didn't post with that, so sorry about that.

                    Edit: I forgot, but another tip that really helped me learning, is that where guitars have dots to denote particular frets (usually 5th, 7th, 12th and sometimes 9th), I found these reference points too sparse in a visual sense, so I bought small circular stickers (the kind you get in arts & crafts stores, or for children, in packs with different shapes) and stuck them on each fret, so I could better visually see the difference between frets - I don't know if this would help you, but it did for me, being able to have a bright coloured marker showing each fret, otherwise they all kind of blend and you can lose your place. I mean, its easier to quickly count four bright stickers than the alternative. If you care about your guitar's aesthetics you might not want to do this (though you can gently wash them off with soapy water), but I am function over form mostly. If I was trying to learn piano, I'd write in marker the notes on the keys, for example.

                    • AlkaliMarxist
                      hexagon
                      ·
                      5 months ago

                      Muting of string is definitely useful, thought right now it's another thing I need to physically get the hang of, maintaining the right amount of pressure, etc. I saw the trick of thumb muting the bass strings for the first time recently and it was a bit of an "a-ha!" moment for me. Palm muting is also something I need to practice, it's a challenge to time and coordinate it in conjunction with everything else but I'm sure I'll get it.

                      I definitely like the texture hammers add to a rhythm, so I'll be practicing them. If you can write up that exercise I'd definitely appreciate it, but if it doesn't really work with the formatting on here that's ok, you've already helped a lot.

                      Your point about different timings is a good one too, I'm going to start using a metronome, so being more deliberate about timing is going to be important. Mother I think actually swaps between two time signatures but I've just been doing it by intuition so far.

                      As far as music theory, I take your point. I've come to understand it in terms of a concept in my day job called "design patterns" - which are abstractions of common techniques for designing software (for example peer-to-peer and client-server are ones a lot of people recognize but there ones for almost every category of problem). They give you conceptual tools to recognize and solve common problems, and a common language to describe complexity in a high level way, but they aren't intended to be prescriptive and dogmatic adherence to them is counter productive. So while I recognize the usefulness of theory, I'm content to learn it slowly.

                      In terms of the tiler analogy, I think it takes a lot less time investment to learn the mathematics of geometry than to develop the type of intuition that an experienced tiler would have. So I think both approaches have their place. Bit gross how little value the academic press put on the experience and skill of the tiler for sure. I think this type of arrogance exists in just about every field.

                      I'll give that alternating picking exercise a try too. I might try marking the frets, I'm sure I will get used to the existing fret markers in time but it does take me a minute to count them right now and having more visual distinction would help, I'm of two minds though I because I think the more I use the existing marks, the quicker I'll learn to use them.

                      Also, I've started learning The Wind by Yusuf Islam as my first fingerstyle song. I'm really enjoying the complexity of melody you can create and the feeling of deliberateness compared to strumming. I think it's also good for learning to play with that added precision. So far it hasn't been too hard on my fingers but we'll see how it goes.

                      • Carguacountii [none/use name]
                        ·
                        5 months ago

                        With palm muting, try first playing a three chord sequence (or one to start with) muted entirely (that kind of 'chunky' sound like in Cecelia), then lifting then mute on and off with different beats, or different chords, to make a pattern.

                        With left hand muting, try playing one (or three) chords, and alternating pressing and relaxing your fingers, with a simple rythym so you're not doing too much at once.

                        With the metronome, many people reccomend it, presumably for a good reason, but I will say that I've never used one, but its presumably helpful.

                        With the fret markers, its kind of like stabilizing wheels when learning to ride a bike, so that you can learn pedalling etc first before worrying about balance. I don't use them anymore (I kind of feel what fret I'm on not so much visually but by relative distance and the feel of the strings more), and I don't think they impeded me learning that, but of course different things work for different people - they do make the initial counting frets easier!

                        Yusuf Islam is great for fingerstyle!

                        I will try to write the excersise again, as a new reply not in this thread, because its frustrating reformatting over and over - I keep getting an invalid_body_field error when I try to post, idk if it thinks I'm trying to write code?

                        Some book recomendations, these aren't 'how to play' (though they do have tips), but more just pieces (in tableture and sheet music) that are well arranged and with a lot for begginers. Obviously if you can find them free its better, and I don't want to tell you to spend money if you end up not being into fingerstyle, but for your consideration. On that subject, before even thinking of perhaps getting a nylon string, or maybe a steel string better made for fingerstyle, go to a guitar shop and ask to try them first, so you can get a feel of them (ask them to tune them or bring a tuner, they're always out).

                        1. Fifty Easy Classical Guitar Pieces, Guitar Tableture Edition, Amsco Publications
                        2. Fifty Great Pieces for Easy Classical Guitar, Amsco Publications

                        These two are good for learning, arranged well and in order of complexity. A lot are called 'study no.2' or similar (like Etude), because they are exercises for students. You'll end up realising a lot 'oh this is just C chord with variations' as you play, and they're good for learning scales, chords, and timing in a 'doing' or intuitive sense.

                        1. Fingerpicking Beethoven, Hal Leonard

                        There are a whole range of these by this publisher, of different composers like Bach or Mozart (good because they're orchestral or piano pieces transcribed for solo fingerstyle guitar, so it helps with learning), and also of different styles, like Latin or Jazz Standards or Film Score and so on. Unfortunately, they tend to have only around 15 or so pieces. But they're generally well arranged, and not too difficult - not 'studies' but also not some kind of advanced concert level piece. You'll also be more familiar with the songs, from films and shows and so on.

                        1. 30 Easy Spanish Guitar Solos, Cherry Lane Music Company (distributed by Hal Leonard)

                        This is great for starting with Spanish style - its not complicated like flamenco, again well arranged and for beginners.

                        1. Classic Rock for Classical Guitar, Hal Leonard

                        This is more your genre to a degree, and its good because (while being probably more complicated arrangements than the above reccomendations), you'll be a lot more familiar with the songs, their timing and style and so on. And, as I mentioned, its a lot easier to get a satisfactory level of fidelity to the 'whole band' sound with fingerstyle, compared to strumming.

                        1. 100 Most Beautiful Songs Ever for Fingerpicking Guitar, Hal Leonard

                        These are mostly more 'pop' songs, again good because of familiarity. Despite the effusive title, they may not be songs you'd enjoy listening to, and the quality of arrangement does vary more than the previous ones, but they're generally relatively simple, and also there's a lot of them.

                        1. Celtic Guitar Encyclopedia, Fingerstyle Guitar Edition, Mel Bay Publications INC.

                        This is an excellent resource of arrangements of Irish/Celtic 'folk' music, which is good as it will be a difference in style and manner of playing. The arrangements vary a lot more in difficulty, but there are lots of easy ones to start with.

                        Of course, there are many more, for different genres and styles and regions. But these are all good for starting to learn fingerstyle, and even though many are easy (and you'll end up disliking some), there are pieces in there that you'll end up playing indefinately. And some pieces you'll learn the simplified version of, like Canon in D, and then as you progress you can find published the actual concert level music (often individually rather than as part of a collection), to make it sound even better. I tend to avoid the ones that are specific to a band, because I found that the arrangements aren't always so good - its more kind of 'merchandise'. Also, because I can't read sheet music, I always make sure they have the tableture as well, which I can read. The ones with just chords aren't worth it imo, but then again if you can 'play by ear' you can probably use them to figure stuff out.

                        • AlkaliMarxist
                          hexagon
                          ·
                          5 months ago

                          I'll give those muting exercises a try.

                          Do you play much with others? I've mostly heard the metronome advice in relation to that. So that when you go to play with others you have experience keeping tightly in time. Though playing to a backing track would probably serve a similar purpose and I think some people are innately better at keeping time as well.

                          Thanks a lot for those book recommendations too, I'll definitely seek them out. Tablature is useful, while I can read sheet music a little (learned when I was younger) translating that to the guitar neck is a challenge.

                          • Carguacountii [none/use name]
                            ·
                            5 months ago

                            Hi, apologies for the delayed reply, work got in the way.

                            I've tried again with the exercise, and it didn't give me an error this time, but the tab didn't work at all, it messed all the spacing and sizing up when I posted it.. not sure how to fix that unfortunately.

                            I have played a lot with others yes, not so much at the moment. I think its maybe better to develop your own kind of time discipline, so that if you're playing with people who go out of time (excited or drunk usually) they can follow you. As before, I can't comment on the utility of a metronome, having never used one, but I expect it must be helpful - however its clearly not vital. If I'm playing rythym, I often need to tap my foot, but with fingerstyle or lead I don't need to, maybe because the notes being more broken up than chords helps you keep beat better? I'm not sure its an 'innate' thing, though it might be that people's differing experience helps, but rather that I learned by practicing (on my own, and with other people).

                            Yes, I think tableture is a lot better for guitar, since sheet music I think is developed or at least refined for orchestras, where they're expected to know the piece they're playing anyhow so it emphasises the beats/timing more than the notes, and isn't tailored for a particular instrument.

                            Hope the practice is going well, and good luck with it - anymore questions let me know.

                            • AlkaliMarxist
                              hexagon
                              ·
                              5 months ago

                              No worries at all, I appreciate the effort regardless.

                              I think I'm coming to realize that a lot of things, like the metronome, are just one way to learn something amongst many and the "best" way really varies person to person.

                              Practice is going pretty well - had a busy weekend so not a lot of time but I've got the structure of The Wind down and it's just a matter of repetition now to build speed and precision. It's been fun. I'll certainly be coming back to this thread a lot as time goes on for all the great resources and if I come upon some specific issues later in my learning I'll definitely reach out.

                              Thanks again for all your input.

    • farting_weedman [none/use name]
      ·
      5 months ago

      Friend of The Devil is a fantastic example of what you’re talking about playing with a pick versus finger style. It’s two people on recordings and live, so all the transcriptions are those two parts, one playing a walking baseline in g and the other soloing over chord forms. When you try to combine the two parts as written it seems impossible, but when you try to figure the song out on your own by listening you just finger the appropriate chord that allows for the baseline.

  • wrecker_vs_dracula [comrade/them]
    ·
    5 months ago

    Yo I've worked part-time as a guitarist for longer than any other career I've had. I was full-time for a couple of years, but I didn't really like managing lesson schedules, participating in the gear review content mill, or even hustling gigs really. Anyway, I just want to tell you how amazing music is, and encourage you to keep participating. It's a really important facet of any culture. The more immersed you get into it, the more you will get out of it. The guitar offers a nearly unparalleled balance of versatility and portability. It's also cheap and durable. It generally can't keep up with the acoustic volume of horns or even most accordions, but it offers a nice volume level for accompanying singers without making them strain.

    The fact that you played a little in high school will really help you out now. One thing I noticed when teaching adult students was that there was a big difference between those who had never played an instrument before and those who had even some piano lessons when they were kids. Something about their relationship to their hands seemed different. That isn't to say that adults shouldn't play music if they didn't start as kids. I think everybody should do it.

    If you're playing for around an hour every day, then you're going to get a lot figured out quickly. My main advice would be to enjoy the process as much as possible, and to avoid worrying about the level of your abilities. I know plenty of professional musicians who have experienced depression because they judged themselves harshly, despite being capable players. There really isn't a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.

    In my experience, basically all free sheet music is garbage. Also most professionally prepared sheet music doesn't meet my needs. If I want a chart for a tune, the only way to get a good one is to make it myself. Your ears are always going to help you more than a chart. That is, unless you're playing classical guitar. There's a lot of great sheet music available for the classical guitar that needs little or no editing. It's been a while since I engaged with that, but I remember https://www.delcamp.net/ being a good resource for free guitar sheet music.

    If I were in your position, I'd probably not get a teacher. A teacher can help you stay motivated for a while, but you will need occasions to play the guitar for yourself or with friends to keep you going in the long run. If you want to see what fingerings or techniques other players are using, there's tons of video recordings online now. Only a couple of decades ago video recordings were not easy to find, so you had to either go to shows or pay for lessons to see how people play. That's changed in a major way.

    Most of the time technique will improve when it has to. If the reason you can't play something is because of the limitations of your technique, that's a pretty easy problem to identify. Finding better techniques is usually much easier than actually getting them under your fingers too. Playing exercises is great for this. Musicianship does has an element of athletics to it. Just make sure that you're actually making music most of the time, and not just running mindless drills. If the reason you can't play something is because you're hearing or reading it wrong, then you should be working on your ears instead of your fingers. If you are finding something challenging, it is important to correctly identify the nature of the challenge.

    Music is really one of the greatest things about being human. It provides the occasion for us to remember our greatest poetry. It allows us to connect with our culture and our history across many generations. It accompanies our dances. It can be an endlessly complex puzzle if you want it to be. It can be a powerful form of meditation. It's also a pastime that you can keep with you into your old age. I'm really happy to hear that you're getting back into the guitar.

    • AlkaliMarxist
      hexagon
      ·
      5 months ago

      Hey, thank you, both for the advice and the encouragement, your post is flat out inspiring. I've always loved music and I've definitely regretted giving up on learning to create it myself.

      I have definitely noticed that my muscle memory is coming back quite quickly, I was wondering how long that stage would last though as I assume I'll reach the same level I did before at some point and it will all be new from there but I find it interesting that you've seen a noticeable difference between people who did and didn't play as a child. Of course I'm just taking it as it comes though, not comparing myself with anyone else's progress.

      As far as sheet music (or tablature) this tracks with my personal experience, then as well as now. Particularly for rock music, which makes sense given it isn't exactly published by it's composers. I had thought of trying some classical, just to take advantage of the wealth of resources for it, as I figure a lot of technique will carry over. However while I'm not one who thumbs my nose at classical music, I don't have as much of a personal connection to it and I do only have access to steel string guitars. Do you think it's worth trying as a learning experience?

      I have found some pretty good (IMO) song tutorials on Youtube though, as you say, seeing someone's fingering up close is extremely helpful.

      I'm also interesting in the way you describe the different kind of challenges in playing. It makes a lot of sense to consider that you can be hearing or reading or understanding some music incorrectly instead of just physically playing it wrong, but I hadn't really thought about it that way. I'll definitely keep this one in mind while I'm practicing.

      • wrecker_vs_dracula [comrade/them]
        ·
        5 months ago

        Hey no problem. I saw your post with a guitar in my lap, so I was primed to gush a little. Regarding classical guitar, that's kind of a tough one. Classical guitar is a weird world. There's a lot about it that turns me off. The instrument has relatively low prestige in the larger classical world because it's almost never included in orchestras. And that's mostly because it isn't loud enough. There are two famous concerti that call for guitar soloists, but that's about it. So classical guitarists have their own separate little world inside the classical tradition, and they collectively kind of have a chip on their shoulder. There's a lot of dogma and politics. The technique is generally effective, but I think it's needlessly dogmatic. And they are very reluctant to view modern innovations like steel strings and electric pickups as valid within their tradition.

        The body of music written or arranged for the classical guitar contains a lot of great stuff though. Classical guitar is really inspiring to listen to. Playing it is even better if you can stand to put in the work to build up a repertoire. For people that get really good at reading, they can put a new piece on the stand and let it take them on a little journey. It's like reading poetry or a short story. I never got there, but I can see the appeal. When all the notes are already picked out for you ahead of time, then everything becomes a matter of technique. So classical players are way more in-depth in the way they examine their execution. They get to be very skilled in finding the most efficient way to use their bodies to produce the correct response from their instruments.

        To answer your question, I think it's worth trying if you really want to get super nerdy about technique. Or if there's some classical piece that you want to play. It's kind of a big time investment if you're just looking to build skills to transfer to other styles though. I'd say probably not if you're just trying to get into playing pop tunes with friends or whatever. It's not necessary to have some classical background to be an effective musician. But if you want to get into it, don't think that using a steel stringed instrument or playing without nails makes your interpretation any less valid. Musicians can be snobs. If you want to play a cello suite on the guitar using a pick, go right ahead. They can't stop you.

        • AlkaliMarxist
          hexagon
          ·
          5 months ago

          Hey I'm glad you did, my confidence needed the boost and getting the good replies I did totally hyped me up to play, and try some new things, today.

          The idea of being able to sight read some super complex stuff and just nail it first time like the classical players can is cool and all but it sounds like a huge investment and to be honest, right now, I'd rather be playing the music that really excites me, you know? Maybe one day I'll give it a try just to experience it.

          They can't stop you.

          I'd like to see those nerds try!

          Kidding, love ya classical nerds

  • comrade_pibb [comrade/them]
    ·
    5 months ago

    I've heard good things about these online courses: https://www.justinguitar.com/guitar-lessons

    I've been getting back in to guitar after a decade+ away and I'm seriously considering doing some in person lessons just to get some better technique that won't destroy my wrists

    • AlkaliMarxist
      hexagon
      ·
      edit-2
      5 months ago

      Heh, yeah my wrists are in pretty rough shape already from years of bad computer habits so that's something on my mind too.

      The courses look interesting. Price seems pretty reasonable too. There are so many online courses though it's hard to know who's trustworthy and who's not going to give you anything you couldn't get free elsewhere. Thanks for the rec though.

      • comrade_pibb [comrade/them]
        ·
        edit-2
        5 months ago

        Yeah, so far I've been too cheap to throw any money at online stuff, so I can't fully endorse this. Just passing along a common recommendation

        • AlkaliMarxist
          hexagon
          ·
          5 months ago

          No worries, it's good to have somewhere to start rather than just googling "guitar lessons online" and sifting through the silt

      • wrecker_vs_dracula [comrade/them]
        ·
        5 months ago

        You didn't mention wrist problems in your OP, so I'm going to jump in here. There's basically two principles to guitar technique when avoiding wrist injury is a goal:

        • Keep your wrists straight as much as you can. It's okay to bend your wrists sometimes, but your default playing position for both hands should keep the tendons running through your carpal tunnel straight. This is also considered good technique for typing, so you are likely familiar with it already.

        • Always use big muscles instead of little muscles when you can. The muscles in your hand are smaller than the muscles in your forearm, and the muscles in your upper arm and shoulder are even bigger than your forearm muscles. Try to mainly flex your fingers with the larger flexors in your forearm. Also use your body as a pivot point so that you can pull your fretting fingers into the neck with your upper arm muscles. This will reduce the amount of work done by the smaller muscles.

        • AlkaliMarxist
          hexagon
          ·
          5 months ago

          Thanks again.

          I didn't really think of it until comrade_pibb mentioned it. It's not so bad, I'm a programmer though and I've never really taken good care of my wrists which means I get some pain and stiffness from time to time. Plus my parents both have arthritis so I should really do what I can now to keep them in good shape.

          Will definitely take both these points on board.

  • Sinistar
    ·
    5 months ago

    Man, I should break out my guitar too. It's been years.

    Anyway last time I played it I found that the game Rocksmith was great at getting me to play more. There's a community that makes custom songs for the game, everything from The Ramones to the Sonic Adventure soundtrack is out there. It turns your practice into a game and it has tools like breaking down specific sections of a song and slowing it down to practice tough parts. It won't teach you a whole lot of music theory but it'll work out your fingers and very quickly give you a repertoire that you can mildly impress other people with, which is fun.

    It does require you to have an electric guitar and a way to send its audio directly to your PC. The USB cable that the game came with works fine but I got an audio interface (this one specifically) which worked better and as a bonus let me record really clean audio for myself when I was messing around with that.

    • FumpyAer [any, comrade/them]
      ·
      edit-2
      5 months ago

      Fitgirl has a repack on her site with all DLC included. Haven't tried it out with custom DLC, but your only other option nowadays is buying through Ubisoft Connect or steam key sellers because it's removed for purchase from the steam store. Plus some versions (not this torrent) have Denuvo added too 🤢

      https://fitgirl-repacks.site/rocksmith-2014-edition-remastered/

      Also, you can use an acoustic guitar if you have a way to mic it and an audio interface pipe the sound to your PC. It worked surprisingly well in my room with central heating running.

      • AlkaliMarxist
        hexagon
        ·
        5 months ago

        Hell yeah, fitgirl with the goods. Yeah screw Ubisoft and DRM.

    • AlkaliMarxist
      hexagon
      ·
      5 months ago

      Man, I should break out my guitar too. It's been years.

      Do it, I've found it to be very rewarding after only a few weeks.

      Rocksmith is an interesting one, I remember it coming out right around the time I stopped playing guitar and I always wanted to try it. I figured if it inspired me to play guitar half as much as I played Guitar Hero I'd get pretty good, but I never followed though. Maybe I should revisit it, seems like fun and a good workout if nothing else.

      • FumpyAer [any, comrade/them]
        ·
        edit-2
        5 months ago

        If you don't have it on Steam already, it's only on Ubisoft Connect with Denuvo and a shitty subscription fee. The fitgirl repack is DRM free.

        https://fitgirl-repacks.site/rocksmith-2014-edition-remastered/

  • macabrett
    ·
    5 months ago

    I got two lessons like 15 years ago and then scrambled the rest of my knowledge together by playing with other musicians and trying to write music like the music I like. I think I'd be a better guitar player if I had more lessons, but I still have fun with it.

    I think what you do kinda depends on what you want to get out of it. Do you want to write music? Might be worth it to have lessons. Maybe learn piano for music theory purposes (can get a lot of cheap keyboards these days).

    If you just want to play other people's songs? You can probably get by following some youtube lessons and winging it from there.

    Also sort of depends on the genres of music you're most interested in. I like a lot of punk/folk, so I tended towards rhythm guitar with fairly simple chord progressions. I might have bad techniques, but it doesn't matter much for the music I play. If you want to play a more technical style of guitar, lessons can help a lot there and technique becomes incredibly important.

    • AlkaliMarxist
      hexagon
      ·
      5 months ago

      I've never had much of an desire to write my own music, but I have heard that piano (keyboard) is the easiest path to understanding music theory. I'd just like to be able to play other people's songs though, maybe have some improvisational skills to be able to jam with other hobbyists but that's about it.

      Maybe I'll look as some lessons, even if just to get a feel for what they offer. I want to mostly play classic rock and it can be a technically challenging genre. I definitely get the impression that there isn't really a wrong way to learn though, just ways that are more or less suited to what you want to do.

      Thanks.

  • Dalek
    ·
    5 months ago

    I've played guitar off and on for 30 or so years. Started when I was 17. Got a cheap strat copy and later an acoustic and bass. Guitar lessons are great if you can afford them. In some places tutors have quality related affiliations that will let you know the tutor knows what they're actually doing.

    However there are tons of free tutorials on youtube.

    What you need to do is ask yourself what you want to achieve. Tutorials are great if there is an end objective (eg join a band, write some music). What instrument do you wish to play - classical guitar? Steel string acoustic? Electric guitar? Buying used will save you a shitload of money if you dont currently have a guitar, though taking it to a good shop to get it set up will help.

    • AlkaliMarxist
      hexagon
      ·
      edit-2
      5 months ago

      I could afford lessons, but of course, that money could go elsewhere to help with other things. I guess I'm wondering if having someone who can look at what you're doing and identify avoidable mistakes is worth it in the long run, because I'm not really in a hurry but I was worried I might pick up bad long term habits.

      I've found some good tutorials, but there are so many with such a variety in quality it's hard to know where to start, if there are specific exercises to look at, or if I should just play things I like and figure it out as I go.

      At the moment I'm focusing on steel string acoustic, I also have a cheap strat copy, but I have a quite nice acoustic I got as a gift from my Dad (he taught himself when he was young and he taught me a bit when I was a kid but unfortunately he's getting bad arthritis and can't play very much any more). I guess my objective is to be able to be able to play some favourite songs with simple guitar parts for myself and friends, maybe some light jamming with other hobbyists, all in blues and classic rock styles.

      Damn, thinking about my Dad now and really wishing I had taken advantage of the time we had. He loved playing with me, but I was too in my own head and frustrated with my skill level to appreciate it. Fuck, don't take things for granted people, time goes fast and you don't know what you've got till it's gone. Sorry, for the tangent, cheers for the advice. Got any preferred tutorial channels on Youtube?

      • SpiderFarmer [he/him]
        ·
        5 months ago

        Try your local Parks and Rec org, if your city hasn't gutted it. You might be able to get some weekly classes and only spend some $40 by the end.

        • AlkaliMarxist
          hexagon
          ·
          5 months ago

          I'm aus-delenda-est and I don't think we have anything exactly like a Parks and Rec, but we have the WEA (Workers Educational Association) which I'm looking at now and it seems for about $150 you can pick from a number of 4-8 week courses on guitar. Good suggestion, thanks.

  • Doubledee [comrade/them]
    ·
    5 months ago

    What do you want to play? That might make a big difference in terms of advice.

    If you're at all into folk music you might see if there are any regular jam sessions/jamborees in your area. I was taught to play orchestral instruments but more or less self taught a bunch of folk instruments by going to jams. You'll run into people of all kinds of skill levels and can play in a low pressure setting where mistakes won't draw a lot of attention. They're often older folks too, so they appreciate the socializing and engagement in my experience.

    • AlkaliMarxist
      hexagon
      ·
      5 months ago

      Hey thanks, that's good advice. I didn't really consider looking for jams/social groups/that sort of thing. I will have to have a look and see what's around, I do get social anxiety, especially when it comes to stuff like playing music, but if I can get over that I do like the idea a lot.

      My main interest though is classic rock, when I think what I'd really like to be able to play it's things like Dire Straits, CCR, Pink Floyd, etc. I have a pretty varied taste though and there's plenty of folk revival, blues and even some country music I'd be interested in being able to play.

      • GalaxyBrain [they/them]
        ·
        5 months ago

        CCR is something you can do fairly soon after, some pink Floyd riffs are pretty simple, whole songs can be a thing depending on the song. Dire Straights is something to back burner for a good while. Mark Knoppler is a guitar legend and their stuff is fucking hard as hell.

        As far as guitar advice goes, practice a LOT, playing with other people really helps and for bluesy stuff simple is often better.

        • AlkaliMarxist
          hexagon
          ·
          edit-2
          5 months ago

          Yeah I know two CCR songs and Mother by Pink Floyd (at least simplified versions) which are good for practice (lots of nice open chords). I tried to learn Money for Nothing back in the day and I couldn't do two bars of it, of course I've come to find the tab I had was totally wrong, but regardless, Mark Knopfler is a fucking boss.

          Actually that brings up one thing, how close to the original is good enough? Obviously there's no right answer but it's hard to draw the line because there are so many little techniques that give these songs their character and texture but if I had to learn all of them at once, I'd never play anything.

          • macerated_baby_presidents [he/him]
            ·
            edit-2
            5 months ago

            Actually that brings up one thing, how close to the original is good enough? Obviously there's no right answer but it's hard to draw the line because there are so many little techniques that give these songs their character and texture but if I had to learn all of them at once, I'd never play anything.

            i'll tell you a surprising amount of punk/rock songs are literally just power chords and some effects, and you can play them "correctly" with little effort. Justin Guitar (free) has a transcribing section where you go listen to a Blink-182 song and discover it's literally three power chords or whatever. Of course it's frustrating to be confined to a different genre, I like a lot of guitar-forward things that I can't play at all. Personally I am satisfied with riffs 99% correct and chords mostly correct - fingering often doesn't matter outside of like shoegaze. E.g. Rush's Fly By Night has a very easy intro riff, seems like an easy target except for the solo.

            However I've been having more fun playing with friends at a similar skill level. If we're writing our own music, then I can write an "easy" riff that doesn't move around the neck, simple rhythm parts, etc., and they are how the song is meant to be played rather than mutilating somebody else's song that actually depends on the complicated stuff.

            • AlkaliMarxist
              hexagon
              ·
              5 months ago

              Yeah, I have noticed that. Unfortunately I don't have any friends who play so playing, for example, just the rhythm by yourself is pretty bland. Unless it's a more complex riff but then it's above my skill level. I think one thing I need to do is get over my performance anxiety and find other people to play with, then even simple music can sound full and dynamic.

              One example is Mother by Pink Floyd, I can play the whole rhythm just strumming the chords but they pick out individual notes within that strum pattern and add some pulls and hammers and it adds so much but technically it moves the difficulty up a lot.

              • macerated_baby_presidents [he/him]
                ·
                5 months ago

                This isn't as dynamic as jamming, but you could also learn a DAW and record into it. Synth drums are surprisingly fun and you can assemble rhythm + lead + vocals in separate takes. Definitely recommend finding some local people to play with, it's the only thing forcing me to get better

                • AlkaliMarxist
                  hexagon
                  ·
                  5 months ago

                  By DAW you mean like recording & mixing software right? I've played around with that stuff in the past and at least the computer side of things comes pretty easy to me, having a go at actually recording and arranging music does sound cool. Finding some real people definitely sounds like the best way though, you're able to bounce things off them and have some fun socializing at the same time as getting better.

  • Melina [they/them, fae/faer]
    ·
    5 months ago

    I never liked “this machine kills fascists” on a guitar because it’s not a machine it’s a fucking guitar. It’s an instrument “this guitar kills fascists” or “this instrument kills fascists” is better than a machine.

    • AlkaliMarxist
      hexagon
      ·
      5 months ago

      When I was grabbing the image I saw an article that explained the backstory and Guthrie first saw the phrase painted on a lathe in a weapons factory in NY during WW2.

      The article posited that the point was that the folk revival was something that came out of and was shaped by modern, industrial society, rather than being a traditionalist movement that longed for some idealist vision of an agrarian past. Not a rejection of modernity but a fusing of modernity with more human centric values. I dunno, I think it's cool even if it doesn't make literal sense.

      • 7bicycles [he/him]
        ·
        5 months ago

        It has also given us "This machine makes folk music" written on guns which is just a stellar bit

    • Carguacountii [none/use name]
      ·
      5 months ago

      Hi, I think its used to refer to a guitar, because it is a machine (the tuning pegs are called Machine Heads, like the band name), that is it uses mechanical action (vibration of strings) to achieve a result, same as a piano is a machine. I guess you mean, its not a modern electrical, fossil fuel, or steam related machine, but it is still definately a machine! Whether it kills fascists is another question entirely of course.

    • 7bicycles [he/him]
      ·
      5 months ago

      Oddly enough it does tick all the boxes as per both the cambridge definition and the merriam-webster one

    • AlkaliMarxist
      hexagon
      ·
      5 months ago

      Cheers, any in particular you liked, I'm having a look and they have a pretty overwhelming selection.

      • FumpyAer [any, comrade/them]
        ·
        edit-2
        5 months ago

        This is the one I started with:

        https://www.melbay.com/Products/93200M/modern-guitar-method-grade-1.aspx

        It's a little dry, but it walks you through the very basics, playing notes, tuning the guitar, reading music, etc. Also, it has basic chords for 3 or 4 keys and some beginner chord-melody playing.

        This next one is a bit more interesting imo, as it teaches you several songs. https://www.melbay.com/Products/21669M/modern-guitar-method-grade-1-play-alltime-favorite-hits-by-ear.aspx?classificationSId=G26

        And last, this one just teaches the chords from common keys (C, G, D, A minor, E minor):

        https://www.melbay.com/Products/21786M/modern-guitar-method-grade-1-playing-chords.aspx

        • AlkaliMarxist
          hexagon
          ·
          5 months ago

          Thanks, they're surprisingly affordable too which is great.

  • anonochronomus [comrade/them]
    ·
    edit-2
    5 months ago

    Learn basic music theory. Do not be afraid of it. If you learn the nuts and bolts of music, it will be much easier to learn your instrument As a beginner, it will be most important for you to learn proper techniques (very difficult to unlearn bad habits) and build strength. Playing the guitar involves muscles in your hands and wrist that you probably don't use very much right now. It will be tough at first, but the more time you have hands on the instrument the better.

    • AlkaliMarxist
      hexagon
      ·
      edit-2
      5 months ago

      Ahh, this is the one piece of advice I didn't want!

      I hate music theory.

      Naw, I get that it's important. I find it hard to stay motivated learning the theory though, I haven't really sat down and "learned" anything new since I left Uni 10 years ago and I didn't enjoy it much then either.

      spoiler

      Just kidding, thank you for the advice

      • comrade_pibb [comrade/them]
        ·
        edit-2
        5 months ago

        re: theory

        I've found this YouTube channel to be really good at introducing theory concepts for me: https://youtube.com/@SignalsMusicStudio

        • AlkaliMarxist
          hexagon
          ·
          5 months ago

          Thanks, I'll have a look and hopefully once things start clicking between theory and practice it'll get less arduous.

          • anonochronomus [comrade/them]
            ·
            5 months ago

            You don't need to get too deep in the weeds to get to a point where it really benefits you. An Intro to Music Theory text or similar will cut it. That will give you an idea of how to make chords, what scales you can play with what chords, and what chords make up a specific key (these are all intertwined).

            The keyboard does make it a lot easier to understand, western music theory was invented alongside the invention of the equal temperament keyboard. Plus the piano is right in front of you, color coded, and linear as opposed to the weird grid of wires that is the guitar.

            • AlkaliMarxist
              hexagon
              ·
              5 months ago

              Yeah, I've made a few attempts at leaning it in the past, I actually tried to learn keys a few years ago and found it "clicked" easier, but I didn't stick with it. I'll definitely at least try to get the basics down this time though.

              • anonochronomus [comrade/them]
                ·
                5 months ago

                Oh yeah, if you're having a hard time with finger strain on a steel string guitar you can swap out the strings for nylon coated steel. I use them on my electric to get a warmer sound. They're called "tape wounds." They're popular for electric bass but never really caught on for guitar. Flat wounds are also easier on the fingers, because they don't have round wire wrapping the strings, but I would go for the tapes if you want max relief. Plus they last longer than regular, round wound strings (minus the top two, they're plain steel. But they could be swapped with coated strings to maximize life span.)

                • AlkaliMarxist
                  hexagon
                  ·
                  5 months ago

                  Thanks, I've started doing some fingerstyle and so far neither hand is taking too much of a beating. My acoustic actually came with wrapped strings, I suppose so they don't die on the shelf so quickly, but I like the brighter sound - that's for acoustic though.

  • Shinji_Ikari [he/him]
    ·
    5 months ago

    I took lessons for years and sorta stopped taking it seriously during college, a couple years after I graduated I decided I wanted to take it more seriously. I sorta plateaued for a bit and just bit the bullet and got a teacher and my progress has skyrocketed in a few weeks.

    My biggest struggle was learning and holding onto theory because I couldn't tie the many disparate parts together. I had learned and forgotten how to sight read several times, as well as various theory bits. Now I'm properly learning the fretboard and connecting it to concepts in a way that I'm able to just find scales and arpeggios rather than memorizing them.

    Being able to make the connections and go "Ah! that's why this works!" is a huge game changer and confidence booster.

    For a greater context, I got really bored playing most kinds of rock, learning songs just felt pointless to me. I'll go back to classical guitar occasionally but what I really wanted to do was create my own jazz chord melodies and that's sorta hard. I'm really good at learning songs from tab, but it began to feel sorta empty.

    • AlkaliMarxist
      hexagon
      ·
      5 months ago

      I had learned and forgotten how to sight read several times

      Definitely been there!

      It does sound like you're a fair bit more advanced than I am, I'd be pretty happy to have the technical skills to pick up new songs quickly. I will keep this in mind for the future though, thank you.

      • Shinji_Ikari [he/him]
        ·
        5 months ago

        I'd be pretty happy to have the technical skills to pick up new songs quickly

        This is primarily from the almost 20 years(ow holy shit what) of having a guitar near me and learning challenging songs. The real key to it is learn songs slowly, build up speed, and play along with the record. But this method creates a lot of blindspots. I'm terrible at playing to a metronome(but playing with a drummer is easier for some reason). I can't "jam" with people, if someone says "do a blues in A", until recently they might as well have been speaking korean to me.

        • AlkaliMarxist
          hexagon
          ·
          edit-2
          5 months ago

          Haha, that actually unlocked a memory, I did know how to play a 12 bar blues in A! Once upon a time.

          I reckon unless you're super proactive about preventing it everyone picks up a few blind spots over time though. Well I hope to be in the same place as you 20 years from now!

          • Shinji_Ikari [he/him]
            ·
            5 months ago

            Good luck! guitar is a ton of fun and super rewarding. Don't get sucked into gear circles too bad, a well practiced picking hand can out perform many thousands of dollars in gear when it comes to tone.

            • AlkaliMarxist
              hexagon
              ·
              5 months ago

              Thanks! Also yeah, the gear side of the hobby is scary.

  • Llituro [he/him, they/them]
    ·
    edit-2
    5 months ago

    Use light strings, you're not gonna get anything extra from heavier ones but arthritis.

    • AlkaliMarxist
      hexagon
      ·
      5 months ago

      I'm using lights at the moment, but apparently there are like 3 levels of extra, super lights too, is it worth going even lighter?

      • Llituro [he/him, they/them]
        ·
        5 months ago

        are you playing on an acoustic or an electric? sound-wise, on electrics, it doesn't matter a lot and most people tend to find lighter strings more comfortable. i would say 9's are a pretty standard light string. billy gibbons of zz top puts 7s on a les paul, and he still sounds like himself, so for electrics it just really doesn't matter as much as some people think. it's just what you prefer. disregard if you're playing an acoustic, for those i can just say that i tend to prefer light strings.

        • AlkaliMarxist
          hexagon
          ·
          5 months ago

          Mostly acoustic, I think I have 12s - which is a light gauge in D'Addario's line up. No idea how that compares to anything else though except that I do have an electric and the strings are dramatically lighter.

          • Llituro [he/him, they/them]
            ·
            5 months ago

            that's a pretty light string gauge for acoustics, as long as the action (string height above fretboard) on your instrument isn't too high, those should be fine. it's definitely something to play around with though. i have one electric strung with 11s for example because it works better with the bridge system on it.

            • AlkaliMarxist
              hexagon
              ·
              5 months ago

              Ok, cool. No I think it feels good. This is one of the things I'm pretty clueless about though.

      • Carguacountii [none/use name]
        ·
        5 months ago

        As far as I know, the difference in strings is to produce tendencies towards different sounds, not specifically to make it easier or harder to play, although lighter strings will be easier. I think there are some guitars with super hard strings, because they want a certain sound. Lighter strings are generally better for sustained ringing, and for chords, while heavier strings are louder and also better (with a pick) for melodies because they transmit individual notes better, but can sound worse for chords - they don't ring as long, being heavier. For learning, its all a bit academic, medium is fine, light is fine, very light is also fine, heavy/very heavy will make it harder.

        I wouldn't worry about going lighter, unless you want the particular sound (it won't make a huge difference though), but in terms of injuries, if something hurts don't do it, aside from the kind of 'pain' you get from building muscle or callous which is fine, but if it hurts on a tendon or bone level, stop or change your technique.

        • AlkaliMarxist
          hexagon
          ·
          5 months ago

          Thanks, I had seen elsewhere people saying "if you're a beginner don't use heavy strings or you'll be miserable" and I didn't really know how heavy is too heavy. I mean all acoustic strings feel pretty bloody heavy to me.

          • Carguacountii [none/use name]
            ·
            edit-2
            5 months ago

            yes, they are all quite heavy!

            Its two aspects, having to press on the fretboard (individual notes or chords like with 'bar chords'), and also strumming if not using a pick. Your hands will get used to them over time either way, but lighter is better to start because it takes time to build muscle and callous. But really even if you start with lighter, and later try heavier, you'll have built up the required hands to not find the heavier ones too difficult. But if starting with heavy, to the point where you can't even comfortably press hard enough for long enough to get a note to sound, then its too heavy and you should start lighter, if that makes sense. You'd get too frustrated if you had to put too much effort into pressing a string, it'd slow everything down.

            edit: I should add, that for me my occupation helped a lot since I use my hands a lot, but from your other comment, I'd expect a computer based occupation would give the dexterity & speed, with some adaptation, but the muscle development required would possibly be different. There are finger strengthening exercices that would help (you can find online), or I'd expect another simultaenous hobby that requires you to use your hands would also build that. If the strings are difficult to press to the point of it getting in the way of learning either go lighter, do exercises, or (as elsewhere) nylon strings are easier.

            • AlkaliMarxist
              hexagon
              ·
              5 months ago

              Ah ok, while they're very heavy compared to my electric, it doesn't cause me discomfort (except due to lack of callous) I'm a pretty large guy with bigger hands, so that side of things tends to be less of a problem.

    • wrecker_vs_dracula [comrade/them]
      ·
      5 months ago

      Well, you can also get a lot more acoustic volume out of heavier strings and high action. It doesn't matter how well you play if nobody can hear you ;)

      But yeah, play whatever strings feel good to you. I'm not going to tell you you're wrong for liking the light ones.

  • grey_wolf_whenever [he/him]
    ·
    5 months ago

    Hey! I play so much guitar, Im in a bunch of bands in NYC. Id say do it, if you can get a tutor thats great. My advice is to practice with a metronome so you can get good enough to play with other people, all anyone really wants is someone who can stay on beat.

    • AlkaliMarxist
      hexagon
      ·
      5 months ago

      That's super cool, wish there was more of a live music scene around me but I can totally see practice with a metronome being useful when I do want to play with others. Cheers.

      • grey_wolf_whenever [he/him]
        ·
        edit-2
        5 months ago

        theres probably more of a scene than youd think, but less than you hope. Metronomes are great, you gotta start early with them because people will play for years and get to a point of being really good but having no ear for the beat, you know? I was someone who could shred and then couldnt play 4 notes to a beat, and having to relearn that really messed me up so my advice to people starting is to just bite the bullet and learn to play in time.

        • AlkaliMarxist
          hexagon
          ·
          5 months ago

          more of a scene than youd think, but less than you hope

          Definitely.

          And yeah, learning to play in time seems like something you do right once but it very hard to pick up down the line when you have years of practice only playing to your own tempo.