its not just a small subset of the pigs, as was predicted & predictable gun use is increasing in UK police, and they resort to them more and more often. someone was shot recently near me by police, it just never seems to make national news when it happens, beyond the local residents no one would know it happened.
the vast downside is that in any conflict with the state, the unarmed populace loses. and in any conflict with an interest that the state backs, so we can't actually ever fight landlords or aristos or capitalists, because they have the backing of modern weapons and we don't.
i hate that we can't have guns in the UK. It means only the state and criminals have them. it means we'll never have a successful revolution, the UK will only collapse via external pressures breaking the military/police, we can't do it ourselves.
do you live in london?
cos where I live they have 1 firearms team and a sniper unit, (62 total gunpigs) and they share with the next county over (who have 151)
plus nationwide, pigs fired their guns only five 13 times last year
no, though i have done for a bit. london is a pretty big % of UK pop, and it's where most of the power & wealth lies so yeah it has more armed police.
provinces require fewer guns to keep in order ofc. (and NI is in the UK theres lots of gun pigs there).
my point being that because the populace don't have guns, you don't need many guns to control them. so any increase in arming police units is going to be starting from a smaller base, same with incidents of them being used. it will always look small or like an incremental, relatively insignificant amount of increase compared to countries with gun armed pops, because the police don't usually need guns to deal with people without guns.
62 total gunpigs is small, but one gun controls many people without guns.
as for the 5 times fired, I have trouble believing any police or UK gov stats, or media, but anyway have you got a link even if its from those sources? like according to the UK police a bruised finger counts as an injury sustained in the line of duty they lie constantly aided by the press, we're so bad for copaganda here...
So many major stations/airports in the UK, at least in the biggest cities have police with machine guns now.
and ofc, regardless of how many pigs have guns (and if there is an increase or decrease of them using them) now, the UK military has guns. and people don't.
maybe there is an argument that the UK is peaceful like this, less dangerous. I don't know, criminals can still get guns. And if you for example believe the UK is an imperialist state, what can you do about it without guns.
we even make guns, yet aren't allowed them - they're exported to kill people abroad.
no, though i have done for a bit. london is a pretty big % of UK pop, and it’s where most of the power & wealth lies so yeah it has more armed police.
also the met have always been famously racist and corrupt, so them being the most heavily armed is just ...fantastic...
62 total gunpigs is small, but one gun controls many people without guns.
while it makes a good soundbite, there are plenty of weapons and tactics that can be used to deal with someone with a gun
as for the 5 times fired, I have trouble believing any police or UK gov stats, or media, but anyway have you got a link even if its from those sources? like according to the UK police a bruised finger counts as an injury sustained in the line of duty they lie constantly aided by the press, we’re so bad for copaganda here…
So many major stations/airports in the UK, at least in the biggest cities have police with machine guns now.
yeah, since 9/11 and 7/7, the airports and train stations have a few pigs with mp5s and p90s
and ofc, regardless of how many pigs have guns (and if there is an increase or decrease of them using them) now, the UK military has guns. and people don’t.
if it came to the point where they would be in play, we could follow the Irish example and get smuggled armalites, be harder because of the lack of a land border, but still possible
I don’t know, criminals can still get guns
and the vast majority never use them
what can you do about it without guns.
you would be better off taking SA80s from TA centres than using handguns against a professional army, or get a license for a rifle (or take one from someone who has)
we even make guns, yet aren’t allowed them - they’re exported to kill people abroad.
funny thing, our olympics pistol shooting team has to train on the Isle of Man because thats the only place in the UK where handguns are legal
"if it came to the point where they would be in play, we could follow the Irish example and get smuggled armalites"
yeah, but then the fact that you have to take that extra step of acquiring them means you're already losing compared to people with one at hand.
"and the vast majority never use them"
but then the threat of violence is almost as good as the use i guess.
also, obviously your experiences no doubt vary from mine, but it would be really hard to even get a "dodgy handgun" maybe online i dunno how that works but irl, afaik you can get a loan of a gun if someone knows you really well but i've never 'become aware' of an oppertunity to actually buy one illegally to own.
"you would be better off taking SA80s from TA centres than using handguns against a professional army,"
I wouldn't even know whats best to do, which is another problem with control of guns, lack of education in this kind of thing.
"our olympics pistol shooting team has to train on the Isle of Man because thats the only place in the UK where handguns are legal"
silly. and the MoD can fire munitions and train in england with live rounds? where do the police train do you know?
yeah, but then the fact that you have to take that extra step of acquiring them means you’re already losing compared to people with one at hand.
very true, but it's better than nothing
but then the threat of violence is almost as good as the use i guess.
in my experience, it's sometimes that, sometimes a prestige thing, and sometimes it's because they would rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it
also, obviously your experiences no doubt vary from mine, but it would be really hard to even get a “dodgy handgun” maybe online i dunno how that works
for me it went from "i'm 16 and know people who i can buy weed from" to "I'm 16 and know two people who own illegal handguns and one of them has offered to take me to the guy he bought his off of" in a very short time, just by meeting people though people
silly. and the MoD can fire munitions and train in england with live rounds? where do the police train do you know?
i think they have training centres in their local area, the ones from my town train in a nearby slightly bigger town
"for me it went from “i’m 16 and know people who i can buy weed from” to “I’m 16 and know two people who own illegal handguns and one of them has offered to take me to the guy he bought his off of” in a very short time, just by meeting people though people"
i didn't grow up in a city, instead a smallish town so no way did my weed dealer know where to get one hah
later in life, i've only ever seen one irl even from living in cities and when i've known of people having them i've never been offered to get one lol
"i think they have training centres in their local area, the ones from my town train in a nearby slightly bigger town"
makes it seem so pointlessly performative having the olympic team train on an island instead. i guess there are special exemptions for pigs then.
do you think things will change in the UK with 3d printed guns btw?
i didn’t grow up in a city, instead a smallish town
i grew up in a shitty little town on the coast, the chain of people went: friends from school -> dude who sells weed occasionally -> a friend of his -> guy who is a pretty big weed dealer in the area -> a customer of his -> dude who sells class As who happens to own a gun -> a friend of his (also with a gun) who knew a guy who sells guns
it's funny how connections between people can lead to all sorts of things
do you think things will change in the UK with 3d printed guns btw?
possibly, but I would guess that most people who want an illegal handgun would rather get a dodgy reactivated Makarov or 92 from a guy they nominally trust than buy a 3d printer, hope the CAD(?) file they get is good, figure out how to get ammunition (at which point you might as well just drop ~150 quid ( probably outdated) on the dodgy makarov), then do it all over again when the plastic wears out.
interesting thanks, it's just that i know you can build a 3d printer, or even if you buy one, can't you start making guns instead of having to import or reactivate them - i guess I'm wondering more how it will affect the trade more than for the individual - though with more guns around it gets more possible to get one ofc
like will we start to see illegal manufactories I wonder?
i mean, you can make a gun out of anything really, from godawful pipe, nail and a plank of wood shotguns to the sten submachinegun
the 3d printer just makes it easier, and less skill/labour intensive
the problem will be ammunition, if you are going to build something that fires shotgun shells or rifle rounds, you could get them from a gunshop if you had a license, but anything that fires pistol calibre rounds, you would have to buy those black market
with the trade thing, there already are illegal workshops churning them out, mostly (from what I remember) recoil operated submachineguns, you can make them pretty easily from plans on the internet with a cnc lathe
assuming you have no convictions on your record, or anyone over 18 who lives with you has no convictions on their record, or no mental health issues, or the inspector doesn't not like the look of you, or you don't live somewhere the inspector deems as unsafe
its not just a small subset of the pigs, as was predicted & predictable gun use is increasing in UK police, and they resort to them more and more often. someone was shot recently near me by police, it just never seems to make national news when it happens, beyond the local residents no one would know it happened.
the vast downside is that in any conflict with the state, the unarmed populace loses. and in any conflict with an interest that the state backs, so we can't actually ever fight landlords or aristos or capitalists, because they have the backing of modern weapons and we don't.
i hate that we can't have guns in the UK. It means only the state and criminals have them. it means we'll never have a successful revolution, the UK will only collapse via external pressures breaking the military/police, we can't do it ourselves.
do you live in london?
cos where I live they have 1 firearms team and a sniper unit, (62 total gunpigs) and they share with the next county over (who have 151)
plus nationwide, pigs fired their guns only
five13 times last yearno, though i have done for a bit. london is a pretty big % of UK pop, and it's where most of the power & wealth lies so yeah it has more armed police. provinces require fewer guns to keep in order ofc. (and NI is in the UK theres lots of gun pigs there).
my point being that because the populace don't have guns, you don't need many guns to control them. so any increase in arming police units is going to be starting from a smaller base, same with incidents of them being used. it will always look small or like an incremental, relatively insignificant amount of increase compared to countries with gun armed pops, because the police don't usually need guns to deal with people without guns.
62 total gunpigs is small, but one gun controls many people without guns.
as for the 5 times fired, I have trouble believing any police or UK gov stats, or media, but anyway have you got a link even if its from those sources? like according to the UK police a bruised finger counts as an injury sustained in the line of duty they lie constantly aided by the press, we're so bad for copaganda here...
So many major stations/airports in the UK, at least in the biggest cities have police with machine guns now.
and ofc, regardless of how many pigs have guns (and if there is an increase or decrease of them using them) now, the UK military has guns. and people don't.
maybe there is an argument that the UK is peaceful like this, less dangerous. I don't know, criminals can still get guns. And if you for example believe the UK is an imperialist state, what can you do about it without guns.
we even make guns, yet aren't allowed them - they're exported to kill people abroad.
also the met have always been famously racist and corrupt, so them being the most heavily armed is just ...fantastic...
while it makes a good soundbite, there are plenty of weapons and tactics that can be used to deal with someone with a gun
turns out the source i was using was shit, the number is 13 according to the government, warning, PDF
bonus fatal shootings from inquest.org
yeah, since 9/11 and 7/7, the airports and train stations have a few pigs with mp5s and p90s
if it came to the point where they would be in play, we could follow the Irish example and get smuggled armalites, be harder because of the lack of a land border, but still possible
and the vast majority never use them
you would be better off taking SA80s from TA centres than using handguns against a professional army, or get a license for a rifle (or take one from someone who has)
funny thing, our olympics pistol shooting team has to train on the Isle of Man because thats the only place in the UK where handguns are legal
"if it came to the point where they would be in play, we could follow the Irish example and get smuggled armalites"
yeah, but then the fact that you have to take that extra step of acquiring them means you're already losing compared to people with one at hand.
"and the vast majority never use them"
but then the threat of violence is almost as good as the use i guess.
also, obviously your experiences no doubt vary from mine, but it would be really hard to even get a "dodgy handgun" maybe online i dunno how that works but irl, afaik you can get a loan of a gun if someone knows you really well but i've never 'become aware' of an oppertunity to actually buy one illegally to own.
"you would be better off taking SA80s from TA centres than using handguns against a professional army,"
I wouldn't even know whats best to do, which is another problem with control of guns, lack of education in this kind of thing.
"our olympics pistol shooting team has to train on the Isle of Man because thats the only place in the UK where handguns are legal"
silly. and the MoD can fire munitions and train in england with live rounds? where do the police train do you know?
very true, but it's better than nothing
in my experience, it's sometimes that, sometimes a prestige thing, and sometimes it's because they would rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it
for me it went from "i'm 16 and know people who i can buy weed from" to "I'm 16 and know two people who own illegal handguns and one of them has offered to take me to the guy he bought his off of" in a very short time, just by meeting people though people
i think they have training centres in their local area, the ones from my town train in a nearby slightly bigger town
"for me it went from “i’m 16 and know people who i can buy weed from” to “I’m 16 and know two people who own illegal handguns and one of them has offered to take me to the guy he bought his off of” in a very short time, just by meeting people though people"
i didn't grow up in a city, instead a smallish town so no way did my weed dealer know where to get one hah later in life, i've only ever seen one irl even from living in cities and when i've known of people having them i've never been offered to get one lol
"i think they have training centres in their local area, the ones from my town train in a nearby slightly bigger town"
makes it seem so pointlessly performative having the olympic team train on an island instead. i guess there are special exemptions for pigs then.
do you think things will change in the UK with 3d printed guns btw?
i grew up in a shitty little town on the coast, the chain of people went: friends from school -> dude who sells weed occasionally -> a friend of his -> guy who is a pretty big weed dealer in the area -> a customer of his -> dude who sells class As who happens to own a gun -> a friend of his (also with a gun) who knew a guy who sells guns
it's funny how connections between people can lead to all sorts of things
possibly, but I would guess that most people who want an illegal handgun would rather get a dodgy reactivated Makarov or 92 from a guy they nominally trust than buy a 3d printer, hope the CAD(?) file they get is good, figure out how to get ammunition (at which point you might as well just drop ~150 quid ( probably outdated) on the dodgy makarov), then do it all over again when the plastic wears out.
interesting thanks, it's just that i know you can build a 3d printer, or even if you buy one, can't you start making guns instead of having to import or reactivate them - i guess I'm wondering more how it will affect the trade more than for the individual - though with more guns around it gets more possible to get one ofc
like will we start to see illegal manufactories I wonder?
i mean, you can make a gun out of anything really, from godawful pipe, nail and a plank of wood shotguns to the sten submachinegun
the 3d printer just makes it easier, and less skill/labour intensive
the problem will be ammunition, if you are going to build something that fires shotgun shells or rifle rounds, you could get them from a gunshop if you had a license, but anything that fires pistol calibre rounds, you would have to buy those black market
with the trade thing, there already are illegal workshops churning them out, mostly (from what I remember) recoil operated submachineguns, you can make them pretty easily from plans on the internet with a cnc lathe
You can though, apply for a licence and join a gun club.
assuming you have no convictions on your record, or anyone over 18 who lives with you has no convictions on their record, or no mental health issues, or the inspector doesn't not like the look of you, or you don't live somewhere the inspector deems as unsafe
and you are fine with being on a list