Not us Chapos specifically, but I see on reddit and fb a shit ton of actual vitriol spewn back and forth between MLs, ancoms, anarchists and others. To the point where they're banning and attacking others they deem too tankie or not woke enough. On here it's pretty dang inclusive. I haven't seen too much infighting, and who doesn't love the sarcastic jab every once in awhile?

The stuff that happened in Kenosha has me pretty dang shook, and it's not over. I have a friend who lives with his brother out in Kenosha, and this was minutes from his house. I live four hours away from Kenosha and I easily can see this going down in any city closeby me.

Right now it feels like the fascists outnumber us. Not only the out-and-out fascists, but there is a LOT of wishy-washy support for civility and police. When it gets down to physical violence and shooting from both sides, people won't distinguish the leftists from the nazis, they'll condemn both and want to go back to normal as quickly as possible.

So the only common struggle that we have is with each other. Socialists and anarchists both want to dismantle the capitalist system and achieve egality. We all want to keep this earth going for awhile, (well, except maybe for you posadists), and we all want to defend ourselves and defeat the fascists. We can only have the numbers high enough to do this if we can reach out, not only intersectionally and inter-ideologically, but in real life and in other social media spaces.

I could see this site getting large enough to have the strength to spread propaganda, infiltrate, and reach out. We should organize and develop strategies here (maybe have a separate community for it?) and try to get our ideals out into the world better. Because right now, it doesn't feel like too many people in the middle are ready to fight with us.

Idk, I just smoked for the first time in a week and this has been on my mind today.

  • Phillipkdink [he/him]
    8·
    4 years ago

    I really only ever get the sense that resistance to left unity only ever comes from anarchists. Like a lot of them are pacifist and hate MLs with a passion. The worst I see the other way is a mild disrespect of anarchist ideology.

    When you visit r/COMPLETEANARCHY for example, they seem obsessed with tankies. Like I see more posting about tankies than about actual anarchism. I really get the sense that to them left unity is anathema to pacifist beliefs. If you search 'unity' in r/debateanarchism they seem to consistently reject the idea of left unity.

    • WoofWoof91 [comrade/them]
      ·
      4 years ago

      r/COMPLETEANARCHY is full of petit-bourgeois radlibs who think they are anarchists

    • aaaaaaadjsf [he/him, comrade/them]
      1·
      4 years ago

      I don't think any self respecting anarchist is a fan of completeanarchy at the moment, it's filled with 14 year olds and vaush fans atm

    • Budwig_v_1337hoven [he/him]
      4·
      4 years ago

      I'm not going to downplay how some extremely online anarchists are obsessed with the boogeyman of 'tankies', especially those residing in gentrified spaces like reddit or memesubs like the one you mentioned.

      However. The way you're deflecting blame in your very comment towards 'them' is just another flavor of the sectarianist accusational tone towards some 'other' - and I don't think it's any more helpful than 'blaming tankies'. This phenomenon of leftist infighting, of sectarianism is certainly not something that "only ever comes from anarchists", your comment being evidence of that.

      • Phillipkdink [he/him]
        3·
        4 years ago

        I don't think you're right about that.

        I'm describing my experience here, but I've never seen any hate towards anarchists like I've seen them have towards MLs. Me pointing this out is not the same as hating anarchists, or even not wanting them on my team. I like anarchists fine even if I disagree.

        My point is that every three days there's a left unity post and there's never any discussion that many (most?) anarchists don't want unity with MLs.

        • Budwig_v_1337hoven [he/him]
          2·
          4 years ago

          Fair, I might be wrong for sure.

          But while we're describing personal experiences, I do see MLs calling anyone not entirely on board with any and all 'anti-imperialist struggle' CIA-assets, radlibs, what have you - and not just here and there, it's the go-to insults. Don't like surveillance in China? Must be a CIA-talking-points-regurgitating lib. I think what's alienating to many anarchists is this strict ideological homogeneity some MLs seem to demand from people or they'll not even recognize them as 'real' leftists. And that invalidation certainly leads to a reaction; anarchists calling MLs tankies cuz all they want is crushing people. It just feeds into the same cycle of reactionary sectarianism and thinking there's only one singular way to make things better and anyone seeing a different way is an enemy.

          I'm just saying, there's fucked up folks on both sides here and we all need to make an effort. As others have pointed out, these ideological differences really aren't that important once you're doing actual work on the streets.

    • ThisMachinePostsHog [they/them, he/him]
      3·
      4 years ago

      It could be my ML bias, but yeah it does seem to come from online anarchists more than the other way around. I do see MLs poke fun at anarchists because they've never had a successful experiment and for their participation in the Black Guard, but not much actual disdain.

        • WoofWoof91 [comrade/them]
          ·
          4 years ago

          The EZLN and its larger populist body the FZLN are NOT Anarchist. Nor do we intend to be, nor should we be. In order for us to make concrete change in our social and political struggles, we cannot limit ourselves by adhering to a singular ideology. Our political and military body encompasses a wide range of belief systems from a wide range of cultures that cannot be defined under a narrow ideological microscope. There are anarchists in our midst, just as there are Catholics and Communists and followers of Santeria. We are Indians in the countryside and workers in the city. We are politicians in office and homeless children on the street. We are gay and straight, male and female, wealthy and poor. What we all have in common is a love for our families and our homelands. What we all have in common is a desire to make things better for ourselves and our country. None of this can be accomplished if we are to build walls of words and abstract ideas around ourselves.

          From

          • Budwig_v_1337hoven [he/him]
            ·
            4 years ago

            of course, to press any revolutionary struggle into a label is going to be an oversimplification. I'd still consider them AnCom but what do I know.

            Of course, the social struggles of exploited and oppressed people cannot be expected to conform to some abstract anarchist ideal. These struggles arise in particular situations, sparked by specific events. The question of revolutionary solidarity in these struggles is, therefore, the question of how to intervene in a way that is fitting with one’s aims, in a way that moves one’s revolutionary anarchist project forward.

            In this light, revolutionary solidarity needs to take up the weapon of unflinching, merciless critique of all reformist, nationalist, hierarchical, authoritarian, democratic or class collaborationist tendencies that could undermine the autonomy and self-activity of those in struggle and channel the struggle into negotiation and compromise with the present order. This critique must be based in a lucid conception of the world we must destroy and the means necessary to accomplish this destruction.

    • RedStarLesbian [she/her]
      ·
      4 years ago

      I’m an anarchist and I don’t think this is explicitly an issue with anarchism itself. The thing is, a lot of people, especially within the imperial core, can easily find themselves vaguely agreeing with the concept of being “anti-authority” without actually doing any analysis of what that actually means. They don’t question the imperialist brainwashing they’ve received because they think just blanketing “all hierarchy bad” over everything is adequate and so end up perpetuating imperialism.

      Of course there’s genuine discourse and I’ve definitely seen my fair share of ML hate of anarchist, but I think a lot of the bs from the anarchist side, if you want to call these people anarchists, is from this type of person.