Disclaimer: I'm not going to pretend to know too much about Trotsky and his history and I'm certainly not going to come to the defense of Trotskyists, we all know they're the last breed of leftists this world needs. And I'm sure we're well aware of Trotsky's personal failings, of him being an annoying, know-it-all contrarian douche.
But at the end of the day, Trotsky was a revolutionary to the bone and one of the most influential in modern human history. One could say he is one of the founding fathers of the Soviet Union. As misguided as he may have been, he dedicated his life to communism in the Soviet Union. And yet, his name was tarnished and maligned in the Soviet History books. Stalin intense hatred of Trotsky drove him to murder the man. Trotky's assassin, Ramon Mercader, was awarded the title of the Hero of the Soviet Union. I mean, damn dude, that's a bit much, right? And throughout all of Khrushev's dumbass de-Stalinization efforts, Trotsky was one of the few Soviets whose name was never rehabilitated.
All I'm asking is are we too harsh on Trotsky and do we judge him too harshly based on the actions of his followers? Do you think Lenin would agree with Stalin's treatment of Trotsky and with communist history's treatment of him?
Trotsky fucked over things for himself
Trotsky had alienated the party so badly by 1925 that Kamenev and Zinoviev (old Bolsheviks and Lenin's pals) were trying to get rid of him and by 1927 (When Trotsky was thrown out of the party) they openly called for shooting him ,to which Stalin replied “Why make a martyr out of Trotsky who will soon be defeated anyway. We better not start chopping heads or we wont know where it will end” (referencing the french revolution). Stalin only started chopping heads when the opposition started doing actual assassinations like killing Sergei Kirov
In 1940 when all the communists in Ukraine were pro Soviet he was writing articles on the “independence of Ukraine” when those calling for independence were bourgeois nationalists and fascists and would later go on to collaborate with nazis and up their own SS divisions. This is despite knowing that Hitler called for conquerinUkraine for Lebensraum . Trotsky basically saw himself as a Napolean Bonaparte that should rule all by himself and the party wouldnt even let him be a normal member after 1927 let alone lead them. In the year of his expulsion(1927) he set up the Opposition. At the party congress 724,000 members voted for the Stalin led party platform and 4000 voted for the Trotskys opposition program
Beyond his accomplishments in the revolution and Civil war, in order for Trotsky to ever be treated kindly by the Bolsheviks and history he basically needed to be an entirely different person making entirely different decisions. He could have been a top-level Bolshevik for the rest of his life and have massive impact on the future of the Soviet Union but he alienated everyone, no one liked him and blamed everything Stalin and continued being a contrarian and often reactionary in his stances after he was exiled
Nope. The left is actually too friendly to Trotsky, which is to say large segments of Western leftists have embraced his egotistical bullshitting about Stalin and the USSR and turned it into an entire hard-line ultra movement that has generally aligned itself with Western imperialism.
There's Trotsky the man and Trotsky's ideas. Trotsky's ideology was, as I understand it, even farther left than Stalin. That is good. Trotsky as a person fucked up. Reject great man theory!
Also, in hindsight, Trotsky wasn't wrong about the need for global communism, as shown by the refusal of the capitalist countries to leave communist countries in peace.
Being "to the left of Stalin" has a very particular meaning in th context of European / Russian socialism of the time and imo isn't useful unless we're keeping ultras in mind - and the people Lenin criticized in mind.
The "more left" Trotsky led the Red Army, crushed all kinds of attempts at worker cooperatives and agricultural self-governance, and was heavily motivated by and published on egotistical petty bullshit that he exaggerated into general criticisms of entire movements and the USSR as a whole. Hell, he even tried to promulgate the idea that Lenin considered him his true heir. So I think it's more useful to use terms like ultra or to just describe it what he did, said, and what his cultivated impact has been, particularly in contexts where it could possibly matter nowadays. Trots starting stupid petty fights and defining themselves through opposition to AES and "Stalinists" is a long tradition that goes all the way back to our boy. Those are the bad Trots.
Back to ideas, discussing issues like permanent revolution is valuable and he pushed that hard. Not that we should accept embracing it in a dogmatic way (again, how the bad Trots behave...), but as a good way to frame the dialectic of socialist states.
Trotsky didn't have any special insight that capitalist countries would attack and isolate socialist ones. He had a hypothesis, among others, that the USSR should immediately export revolution to the rest of Europe, which is not actually a good idea given that Russia wasn't even industrialized and was still recovering from its civil war. "Wishful thinking" comes to mind. Russia industrialized at breakneck speed for over a decade longer and still got its face smashed in by the Nazis before delivering its own death blow. The USSR would have been crushed in its infancy and the green light to aggressively destroy all hints of socialism would've been given - basically just accelerating the cold war and destroying the first bastion of AES. At least, this is far more likely than Trotsky's speculations. Imagine how united the global Bourgeoisie would be if it weren't a minor regional power but Poland and Germany where they were dispossessed. Imagine what they'd do. Look at what they did in the face of far more tame threats like losing small colonies. Look at how each of their countries turned fascist.
Marx underestimated the strength of reaction, particularly in its psychology vs. the contradictions created by capitalism. Trotsky did the same, as do most ultras, and it's a big part of why Western leftists have such unrealistic ideas of what socialism looks like and how it can be achieved and supported and why nihilism is a close friend of baby Western leftists.
Trotsky’s ideology was, as I understand it, even farther left than Stalin.
crazy that Ben Shapiro knew this.
Is that his fault, though, that Western 'Leftists' and Imperialists have used Trotsky as a cudgel to beat the entire idea of the Soviet Union with?
It's certainly in line with what he wrote and tried to rally people towards, but you can't give him all the credit, of course. Western leftist anticommunism already wanted to believe those things and was purposefully shielded from cold war violence.
Every person that really really likes Trotsky ends up being aligned with the US State Department, prioritizing their hatred of inauthentic (to them) AES over all else.
I may be wrong but I remember reading he was a really good military strategist and contributed a lot to the Red Army's success in the Civil War
He defected to the states and made Kentucky fried chicken which he runs to this day
Leon Trotsky definitely would buy a dancing crow named Jim Crow as an attraction to his roadside gas station/restaurant
I mean even if he wasn't assassinated in Mexico he would be 142 years old so yeah he dead.
Is he though? JFK jr seems to be doing alright, running for president and shit 🧐
If Trotsky had died just after the Civil War, he would have been a legend.
Okay, in seriousness, he was an egotist who let himself be used as a tool by anticommunist forces (in both a literal and ideological sense) later in life. Theory-wise, regardless of what you think of the man himself, he still has some valid contributions to Marxism that shouldn't be overlooked, even those later in his life in regards to his observations about the rising tide of Fascism.
As to Trots today, they're a mixed bag. A lot of them do deserve their reputation but quite a few of them do valuable work on the ground, in both mutual aid and spreading class consciousness (some I've met in person).
Pretty much this
It really can't be overestimated how important the dude was. He's the one responsible for the Bolsheviks seizing power in 1917, the creation of the Red Army and the victory in the Civil War, fucking incredible. Unfortunately immediately after Lenin's death he fucked up massively and his legacy remained as that of a wrecker, both because of his own attempts to undermine the Soviet Union and his "followers" being essentially feds.
Trotsky was a revolutionary without a doubt, and contributed massively to the Russian Revolution. In 1905 (the precursor to 1917) he was one of the main leaders of the St. Petersburg Soviet. In 1917 he defected to the Bolsheviks when realized that they were right about the material conditions being ripe for a second revolution, overthrowing bourgeoisie democracy and was trusted by Lenin et al. He went on to lead the Red Army, turning a rag-tag force of demoralized soldiers into an efficient military capable of defeating the White Guards and the entire Allied powers of WWI, as well as negotiating a favorable peace with Germany to end Russia's involvement in WWI. To deny him any of these things is crazy, he is an integral part of the Soviet Union's establishment. Plus, his massive book on the history of the Russian Revolution is great.
That said, he actions later in life, growing more megalomaniac-like and being convinced he alone should rule the Soviet Union, that the revolution was "betrayed" by the very people who carried it out, etc etc are Not Great and are not harsh enough imo. He actively fermented dissent, assassinations, and the like in the Soviet Union. He alienated basically all his supporters.
negotiating a favorable peace with Germany to end Russia’s involvement in WWI
I was under the impression that it was a pretty bad deal for Russia, but maybe the best they could hope for given the circumstances
It was a bad deal out of context, in context the fact that they negotiated a peace at all was incredible. Petrograd was like days from falling to the Germans. Also Trotsky did technically resign his post and refused to sign but he got them there lol #justtrotskythings
I don't know about the man, but the way modern trot orgs are looked at is unhelpful and self defeating and people should stop worrying so much about which dead guy is on which team
yo im mad at you about something someone else did 100 years ago.
I think the onslaught of useful idiot and wrecker Trots ever since he died is the main reason people hate him. The vitriol in history is a reaction to trots being western-backed dicks. The contemporary hatred comes from him having been a jackass to anyone who could have helped him, and then taking his contrarianism to the point of shitting on the left during WW2
Yes and no. I think Trotsky was wrong on many things and I also think he was right on many things. I think he was a selfish and arrogant prick but I think Stalin killing him did more harm than good. Trotsky was human, and should be treated as such
All this talk about stalin, trotsky and a bunch of other dinosaurs is so cringe and it does nothing to progress Socialism anywhere anytime. It's laughable.
Obviously not lol? It's a form of escapism, just talking about human relations and history.
This is the line the new left was peddling when I was in primary school. "Lenin? Stalin? Marx? This is old news. We need to build our own tradition free from their stuffy and antiquated theories." Where is their socialism now? Buried by the forces of reaction. History is real, and we can learn from it. It is not a coincidence that AES states were founded by parties that upheld the science of historical materialism.
Trotsky: good before the revolution, bad after. Can it also be argued that Gorbachev’s reforms might as well have been Trotskyist (even if Gorbachev himself would deny as such) and that they are a major reason the USSR collapsed?
Also obligatory Victor Serge plug. I am an ML but I like this anarchist and Trotskyist writer a great deal. He was such a great Trotskyist he managed to alienate Trotsky himself. The Case of Comrade Tulayev and Memoirs of a Revolutionary are invaluable.
Pure speculation but I think Trotsky would have been just as “dictatorial” as Stalin had he somehow come out on top instead.
Trotsky was a traitor who conspired on assassination and industrial sabotage plots. That is why ‘his name was tarnished and maligned’. It wasn’t just a whim that occurred to Stalin in the shower one day. There were several lengthy trials between 1936 and 1938 establishing his guilt.
