What the fuck is the 'authentic experience' of a chicken nugget that seitan is incapable of replicating, anyways? Also the burger patties I ate in school as a cringe baby carnist were 60% TVP soy to begin with, so if anything I'm being even more honest with my frozen slabs now
I like my meat substitutes because I'm thoroughly uncreative and don't ever intend on changing that. "Just learn new recipes" yeah I can't even wake up in the morning let me have my fake mince Bolognese
For real, and if the only thing standing between me and some godly grilled cheeze sandwich and tomato soup is "suffering" through a slice of coconut fat, salt and emulsifiers, I'm going to be enjoying a delicious grilled sandwich and dunking it in the soup.
The line between "meat substitute" and "regular veggie dish" is kinda bullshit anyways:
Like, if I make my own seitan from scratch and use it in unique ways is that meat substitute?
If I make a roux, and make it salty and a little sour, is that a queso substitute or just a roux?
If I crumble firm tofu and pan fry it until it's a bit crispy, is that meat crumble substitute or is it just tofu crumbles? Am I sinning if I use tvp instead?
Makhani sauce uses cashew cream by default but if you take that same cashew cream in another dish, maybe you're a big faker.
How much squash do I have to put in my patty before it flips from "burger" to "veggie fritter?"
It's all silly.
My diet is like 70% carbohydrates and 30% meat substitutes
Yes I know it's unhealthy, I'm in this for the animals, not for myself
Also, and this is a bit of a different issue, but there is absolutely no reason that "meat" has to mean animal flesh. Historically the word "meat" has been used to refer to all sorts of things. Nutmeat and sweetmeats are the two examples that spring to mind immediately, neither of which is dead animal. I support taking back the word "meat" from the carnists. Yeah, I eat meat, it's soy meat and it's delicious! No dead animal involved!
Historically the word "meat" has been used to refer to all sorts of things
The only modern use of the old definition is in mincemeat pie...
That being said, I think the chuds are gonna do a slogan of "put the meat back in mincemeat pie" or somethin', when someone tells them that fact...
Honestly if someone has a vegan or vegetarian recipe for mincemeat pie, feel free to send me your favorite recipes. I've been wanting to find something that can match the stupidly umami and salty notes of an Australian pie. Vegetarian is cool with me too, honestly.
I think we're referring to different mincemeat pies (the one I'm talking about is the one ironically without much beef or suet, and it's rather sweet)
Australian mie pies probably need something like a mushroom gravy and some nice seitan and tofu to substitute for that
However, I did find this prbly Quebecois dish
Good bread is extremely “meaty” in texture. Dense, chewy, savory things have always been the Vegan’s domain. I understand people who are “turned off” by meat substitutes because it reminds them of murder, but I think it’s moreso an issue with framing than anything. We aren’t eating these “meat substitutes” to “substitute” for murder, we are eating them because they are dense and chewy.
Is anybody actually getting hostile about that?
Eat chewy savory protein as much as you please, I ain't stop you. But my issue is implying these foods are a healthy option when there's no doubt that most fake meats are heavily processed, full of weird shit, and relatively unhealthy compared to some cooler vegan dishes.
I personally see this opinion pop up just about every time meat substitutes come up in conversation, including on hexbear.
And re: meat substitutes being 'full of weird shit' just comes off as silly when the majority of them are basically just fancy bread. Soy protein, wheat gluten and seasoning oooh so scary.
Fair enough if you see the opinion a lot.
But that is an absolute understatement. They all have an assortment of arguably dodgy (if common) additives and thickeners and so forth. The most popular veggie sausages here literally have rust in them. They pretty much all have relatively high salt content, some have a surprising amount of sugar. And just being mushed and squished and processed in weird ways itself can cause worse nutritional uptake. And what the fuck is a textured rehydrated soy protein? A long way from actually just eating soy beans.
I'm not saying all these ingredients are necessarily wrong, and again, I ain't stop you eatin' 'em. But don't start telling me it's silly to point 'em out as weird. I repeat - Feel free to eat it, just don't live under the impression they are necessarily healthy options.
Needing iron =/= happily adding rust to my food to make it red-brown.
I've already said I don't think these things are necessarily wrong. And fermenting is typically a cool thing to do with food. But many modern methods of industrial processing of food demonstrably contribute to worse health outcomes.
And what the fuck is a textured rehydrated soy protein? A long way from actually just eating soy beans.
Kind of a bad example to pick since TVP and soy curls are just what's left behind when you squeeze the fat and moisture out of soy beans (ie to make vegetable oil). There are less steps in between TVP and soy beans than there is between certain grains and stuff like pasta made from them.
Honestly anything fried properly ends up crunchy on the outside and soft and chewy on the inside.
Protein helps since it's naturally soft and chewy when cooked, but it's not like my mouth and stomach counts the macros. Fried tofu is a cheap and easy go-to for me. I like tater tots too
Sauces don't belong to anyone lmao I add sauces to everything anyways
Fake chicken is close enough for me. A proper beef substitute is a bit harder, imo.
Honestly the Carl's jr beyond famous star/ burger king impossible whopper basically taste the same as the normal in my mind. I've never done side by side though.
That's fine, Carl's jr is superior.
I used to live by BK but now they're all like 20 minutes away.
I did a side-by-side last summer with my husband; you can tell the difference when you're paying attention, but it's very very close.
I still like regular veggie burgers better, but the Impossible stuff is definitely useful for turning people.
For Chili and stuff, definitely use soya de carne. It's almost indistinguishable form ground beef. Harder to make into a burger of course but still okay.
Cuts of beef are a lot harder to make and will probably necessitate some more research tbh.
Gonna look into that, thanks. And yeah, black bean burgers are "good enough" since burgers are really all about the texture and the cheese, honestly.
There are these little packets of fake steak you can get from Japanese / Korean stores and git damnnn they are delicious, like actual stew.
Soy bean snacks in general are rock and roll, I love the lil cumin bbq stick thingies, they have been a favourite of mine all my life.
Vegan subs are getting pretty good now. Honestly I would prefer if all things were just as expensive as they needed to be to be ethical / environmentally sound. I can't even eat a bar of chocolate without the benefit of slave labour, but I bet it would taste even better if it was more expensive. Not that it needs to be, it is expensive enough now, just the profits need redirecting to workers.
hey you want to eat some imitation baby? It tastes just like the real thing!
That’s how you sound
That's just moralizing for no reason. Meat eating has been a part of most of the world's cuisines for a very long time, so having substitutes to help more people transition is a very good idea. This point has been repeated a ton of times, but many people are ND and can't change their habits very easily, or have texture / taste sensitivities
sure, but the point stands. for a lot of us, the idea of eating animals is gross. it is a viscerally disgusting thing. we don't eat animals not only because it is wrong but also because it is disgusting. the idea of eating stuff that is intended to be as close as possible to something disgusting is not appealing in the slightest.
and the comment is not "moralizing." no one is saying it would be evil to eat imitation baby. it's just ... why would you want to?
we don't eat animals not only because it is wrong but also because it is disgusting
I don't eat animals because it's wrong. They tasted great to me on the day I stopped. It's true that my taste has changed as a consequence of not eating animals - after a restaurant miscommunication I discovered that butter tastes weird now - but focusing on that is counterproductive for external messaging. Carnists eat flesh and think it tastes good. You can't convince them that it tastes gross and trying to do that will have you dismissed as a picky eater.
but focusing on that is counterproductive for external messaging.
what fucking external messaging this is !vegan@hexbear.net, an explicitly vegan forum where carnists aren't allowed to post on a website where being anti-vegan is explicitly against the rules. this is internal chatter, not external messaging. we're not talking to carnists, we're talking to each other. stop jumping down people's throats for speaking as though carnist brain is not the default
The reason I'm vegan is to get other people to do it. This comm isn't invite-only; carnists see it on Hexbear and in federated servers, and carnists come in and comment all the time. It's fine that you personally are disgusted by the taste of flesh, but that has no moral weight. Transpose it slightly: a lot of tomatoes are picked by slaves. If we were trying to organize a tomato boycott we wouldn't want "tomatoes taste like shit" to be widely agreed on by boycotters. In fact we would want to discourage that talk, to prevent people from saying "you guys don't care about slavery you just don't like tomatoes". And it would be frustrating for boycotters to constantly hear others in the movement go on about how tomatoes are disgusting and how could anyone include that garbage in their meals to begin with, while they're busy trying to make some pathetic bell pepper red sauce.
Idk I mostly want to uncouple the correct moral outrage at production from how stuff actually tastes. When carnists ask me if I miss meat, that's an opportunity to say "sure, but it's really important to not eat it" not "nah I never liked it anyway". Maybe I'll feel differently in a few more years; right now when I hear someone say they're viscerally disgusted by like, seitan because it's sort of vaguely like meat, I find it hard to believe.
It's fine that you personally are disgusted by the taste of flesh, but that has no moral weight.
No one said it did. In fact I explicitly said it doesn't. Who in the world are you talking to?
I'm talking to you and your defense of this original comment:
hey you want to eat some imitation baby? It tastes just like the real thing!
That’s how you sound
This is obviously a moral claim. They're not saying imitation baby would be gross because baby flesh tastes gross. I'm sure it doesn't; veal is eaten across the world. They're saying it'd be gross because you're not supposed to eat babies. Similar arguments are made against BDSM play that simulates harming others. To defend it, you wrote:
and the comment is not "moralizing." no one is saying it would be evil to eat imitation baby. it's just ... why would you want to?
The obvious answer is it tastes good; these are the foodways we were brought up with.
If the taste of meat has no moral weight, why bring up your "visceral disgust" for it? Why would /u/worldonaturtle compare it to baby flesh? If it has no moral weight, then who cares? I don't like lion's mane mushrooms, if somebody was promoting a lion's mane sub to reduce lion's mane farming deforestation* I simply wouldn't have anything to say. Good on them, wasn't my problem to begin with. Nobody gives a shit whether I happen to like the mushrooms, especially those people who are working on a substitute, and going on about how I think it's viscerally disgusting would be needlessly antagonizing.
*I assume this is not a real problem
Actually a funnier example is music. Meat is Murder was a good album but Morrissey sucks and they're making a lab grown Morrissey. You think Morrissey sucks but you only listen to folk punk anyway? Well fuck off lol, who cares
Okay but seriously though, there are a lot of things that are 'imitations' of things that are morally repugnant that are not only harmless but enjoyable due to the fact that no one is getting hurt from it. Like violent video games, some sexual roleplay and so on.
It's less 'we are imitating the animal harm hooray' and more 'we took the animal harm out of this thousand+ year old human food tradition, hooray!' (or twenty+ year old if it's the fast food stuff lol)
they should make an imitation human baby called "humane baby"
I just want something chewy and savory with protein that I can dunk in sauces
imitation baby, tastes just like the real thing
????
I’ll sound like that once they make imitation baby back ribs
Please go outside. You seem mighty starved of nature, the place where plants like veggies and grass grow aplenty.
