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NEW: In a conference call with reporters on responding to Putin, and what comes next, a senior admin official suggested that Russian troops in Donetsk/Luhansk *alone* may *not* warrant the "swift and severe" sanctions the admin has been previewing.— Ali Rogin (@AliRogin) February 21, 2022

NatSec ghouls fucking around: we must starve the next ten generations of russians for their hypothetical glassing of Kyiv

NatSec ghouls finding out: uhhhhhhhhhhh uummmmmmmmmm uhhhhhhhhhhhhhh help idk what to do

  • Quimby [any, any]
    ·
    3 years ago

    yeah, pretty much. Russia has essentially annexed two parts of Ukraine that had a strong separatist presence, and the US is basically saying that doesn't technically count as an invasion, so it may not follow through on the sanctions it had threatened Russia with.

    More broadly, everyone sucks here all around. Russia sucks, Ukraine sucks, the NATO countries suck..

      • yellowparenti5 [none/use name]
        ·
        3 years ago

        Russia isn’t operating out of humanitarian concern

        They're being shelled by Ukraine. Why do you think they're doing this then?

        • SoyViking [he/him]
          ·
          3 years ago

          To destabilise the Ukraine enough to prevent NATO from accepting them as a member? To win internal popularity by defending Russians abroad? To establish Russia as a credible great power that you can't just fuck over like the Ukraine tried to do with the Minsk agreements? To soften the Ukrainian government enough to get them to make concessions?

      • jack [he/him, comrade/them]
        ·
        3 years ago

        but I don’t see a problem with annexing territories where the people want to be annexed

        the problem is that, as far as I'm aware, that's not something the people there want

          • jack [he/him, comrade/them]
            ·
            3 years ago

            uncritically repeat those vague impressions as though they came from you investigating the matter

            as far as I’m aware

            literally the reason that phrase is there to say the opposite of what you're accusing me of

              • jack [he/him, comrade/them]
                ·
                3 years ago

                That I haven't seen solid evidence that the majority of people in those regions want to be part of Russia. If you have sources to the contrary, please share. I don't know what linking NBC is supposed to show. I definitely have not done substantial research on the annexation referendums and didn't realize it was required to comment on Hexbear dot com.

                  • jack [he/him, comrade/them]
                    ·
                    3 years ago

                    Ah, forgive me for thinking the Russian bots on NBC were a reliable source for the official results of the referendum

                    The link you posted said it was illegitimate. I don't know why you're going off about useful idiots for western propaganda when you're just giving me western propaganda. If you want specifics then... any of the accusations in that article, I guess?

                    I do not operate on the assumption that any people want to be annexed. Most of the discussion I've seen in ML circles has said they don't. If I'm wrong, ok. I am welcome to being criticized on Hexbear dot com. But you made the claim "they want to be annexed" without sources. I made the claim "I do not think so" without sources. If you want to raise the level of discourse to debate bro shit, I'm not even going to debate, because I don't even want to fight for the thing I'm saying. I'm just curious to hear the perspective that the referendums were legitimate and to see some evidence for it.

                    This is discussion forum. I'm discussing and hoping to learn more.

                      • jack [he/him, comrade/them]
                        ·
                        3 years ago

                        I understand burden of proof (btw spending a bunch of paragraphs explaining it and epistemology is almost the definition of debate bro shit). I am earnestly asking for where I can find more information about what you're saying. I'm not trying to defend my claim. You seem to be more knowledgeable about this conflict than me. You can berate me or, when I ask "How do you know that?", you could show me.

                        This is a small community of like-minded people that operates well on good faith discussion. I am a fellow anti-imperialist. I'm not crowing for war or sanctions it anything else the US media and government are.

                        This should be a place where I can safely express an opinion without extreme conviction and then, when I ask to be told why I am wrong, have the other person at the very least not continue to go off on me instead of just linking something or explaining something that shows how they arrived at their conclusion. I recognize your username and you probably recognize mine so can you just chill and show me the correct information.

                        Edit: honestly I'll just stressed from work and maybe you are too so I don't really need you to come at me anymore, if you're going to I'm just going to disengage