a lot of “communists” are showing their asses supporting Putin going in.
I don’t see much of any of that here though, aside from some sincere nuanced posts. But some of us irony poisoned posters may on the surface come off as supporting Putin in dunking on the hypocrisies of The West.
At any rate, I’m seeing mostly good takes here
Edit - here is a good faith comment-post to consider:
I want to piggyback off of this, because I’m not sure if I’m allowed to make a post about this. One basic principle in both Game Theory and Military Studies is that 1-1 trades favour whoever holds the advantage, and failing that, whoever operates more effectively at lower resource levels. Radlib slogans such as ‘it’s possible to criticise both American and Russian imperialism’ implicitly favour American Imperialism. Whilst you can say that ‘condemning both American and Russian Imperialism’ is not tantamount to say mutual destruction of two mechanised rifle corps, it is the principle that is important. In a media environment dominated by American exceptionalism, any sort of criticism of US Imperialism is likely to get washed away or buried, whilst criticism of Russia is likely to stick and stay in the public consciousness - in effect, ‘criticising both American and Russian Imperialism’ serves the same purpose as towing the State Department line regardless. (The same applies to China)
I believe it is genzedong on reddit that's going full contrarian brain and uncritically supporting Putin, you're right, most posters here have good takes on what's going on.
A lot of user of Genzedong still pretty immature on geopolitics, they have some good poster there. But I don't see much support, I think they said "critical support", but they know he's capitalist. Like my enemy of my enemy is my friend type of thing.
I only like it because it's the only significant leftist stronghold I know of on Reddit that hasn't fallen to calling everybody who thinks Xi Jinping isn't personally throwing infants into a giant blender every single day a hyperauthoritarian tankie fascist, but that sense of encirclement on all sides from both your traditional enemies in libs and fash (but I repeat myself) and also people who should hypothetically be your allies against US imperialism and fascism in anarchists, must put some weird brainworms in your head. I can't blame them too much for it, nor will I attack them, I'll just try and make points about how Putin is absolutely not a anti-capitalist nor does he have any plans to do otherwise when things calm down a little.
how does one materially support Putin? It's not like they're sending people to fight in the Russian Army. As long as they're opposing western sanctions (which dont imply support for Putin) then its alright. Though I will admit that genzedong has had a fascism problem for a while since its easy to take positions in geopolitics without any comittment to serious Marxist analysis.
As long as they’re opposing western sanctions (which dont imply support for Putin) then its alright.
Okay that makes more sense. Yeah the way someone came into the last thread they were painting that sub as straight up cheering this shit on, they alleged anyway.
I'm glad that there is mostly good takes here. Haven't been here in months. I've also seen it on twitter. Sometimes it's just bad that your brain decides to apply it to more people than everyone.
it is the principle that is important. In a media environment dominated by American exceptionalism, any sort of criticism of US Imperialism is likely to get washed away or buried, whilst criticism of Russia is likely to stick and stay in the public consciousness
Shouldn't we be materialists in the end? Shouldn't we look at the class interests both here AND there? It just boggles my mind how American left can ignore material interests of the ruling class in Russia and say that we shouldn't criticize them, it drowns out anti-imperialist narrative. There's nothing radlib in recognizing oligarchy, nationalism, fascism. And you Americans ignore this for what? For cheap rhetorical wins to own libs? Unveiling the workings of the capitalist-imperialist system takes more analysis than just blind side-taking. If we truly employ materialist framework, one can't ignore BOTH sides of the conflict
The post you linked is just more infuriating than the previous one. What's materialist in it? Riley just cites the things that are perceived as good for the working class, but I guess the working class doesn't actually include people in Russia and people in Ukraine. See, this is why online discourse is putrid, wretched and villainous. For you, for Americans, its just geopolitical games where we can support a fascist as long as he contributes to "multipolar world" and does a couple of good things on the side. Materialist analysis of what Putin actually tries to achieve by sending people to die in Ukraine? In this particular situation? Doesn't matter. Putin owns Nazis! We will believe him at his word when he says that there's a genocide of ethnic minorities and shelling of Donbass because he forgave Cuba's debt. Disgusting.
It's a capitalist vs capitalist dogfight. GZD posters are promoting a capitalist war. I could understand if you were defending China, an actual socialist government. I could understand if western leftists were saying "I understand that Putin had his reasons, but any kind of war is unacceptable". This Riley person and GZD are straight cheering on capitalists! Working class of Russia and Ukraine should be in your minds, how people suffer from the consequences of capitalist squabbles, how they die and go hungry. It's unbelievable to me that saying "no war but class war" is this hard for leftists.
And I didn't even touch any nationalist stuff that Putin said in his 1 hour speech, but never mind that. Putin apologists are disgusting and pathetic as it is.
I don’t see much of any of that here though, aside from some sincere nuanced posts. But some of us irony poisoned posters may on the surface come off as supporting Putin in dunking on the hypocrisies of The West.
At any rate, I’m seeing mostly good takes here
Edit - here is a good faith comment-post to consider:
@dinklesplein
https://hexbear.net/post/176319/comment/2179679
I believe it is genzedong on reddit that's going full contrarian brain and uncritically supporting Putin, you're right, most posters here have good takes on what's going on.
Genzedong always hit me the wrong way. I know people hated the old sub, but it felt way more normal than Genzedong
deleted by creator
A lot of user of Genzedong still pretty immature on geopolitics, they have some good poster there. But I don't see much support, I think they said "critical support", but they know he's capitalist. Like my enemy of my enemy is my friend type of thing.
A lot of them are also just immature in general. Like literal children. So... :shrug-outta-hecks:
i feel like at this point as americans most of the smart ones just keep looking at this and realizing it's our faults. and west europes fault.
The one that read, know the history of the two , and research the event that lead to this know it’s the US and west Europe fault.
Never posted over there so I have no clue, just going by what others in the last thread have said.
Wait, you weren't in the old sub? For some reason I thought you were. If you don't mind me asking, how'd you find this place?
I was on the old sub, I meant I never posted over on GZD, I only posted on chapo and sometimes leftwithoutedge, p_k's sub.
Oh ah, I was gonna say, if you weren't on the old sub there was someone there just like you haha
Could have been me, lol, but I kind of fell off when I got a ban and didn't bother making another alt.
I only like it because it's the only significant leftist stronghold I know of on Reddit that hasn't fallen to calling everybody who thinks Xi Jinping isn't personally throwing infants into a giant blender every single day a hyperauthoritarian tankie fascist, but that sense of encirclement on all sides from both your traditional enemies in libs and fash (but I repeat myself) and also people who should hypothetically be your allies against US imperialism and fascism in anarchists, must put some weird brainworms in your head. I can't blame them too much for it, nor will I attack them, I'll just try and make points about how Putin is absolutely not a anti-capitalist nor does he have any plans to do otherwise when things calm down a little.
how does one materially support Putin? It's not like they're sending people to fight in the Russian Army. As long as they're opposing western sanctions (which dont imply support for Putin) then its alright. Though I will admit that genzedong has had a fascism problem for a while since its easy to take positions in geopolitics without any comittment to serious Marxist analysis.
Okay that makes more sense. Yeah the way someone came into the last thread they were painting that sub as straight up cheering this shit on, they alleged anyway.
They’re not supporting him materially. They are spreading Russian propaganda uncritically though.
I'm glad that there is mostly good takes here. Haven't been here in months. I've also seen it on twitter. Sometimes it's just bad that your brain decides to apply it to more people than everyone.
Shouldn't we be materialists in the end? Shouldn't we look at the class interests both here AND there? It just boggles my mind how American left can ignore material interests of the ruling class in Russia and say that we shouldn't criticize them, it drowns out anti-imperialist narrative. There's nothing radlib in recognizing oligarchy, nationalism, fascism. And you Americans ignore this for what? For cheap rhetorical wins to own libs? Unveiling the workings of the capitalist-imperialist system takes more analysis than just blind side-taking. If we truly employ materialist framework, one can't ignore BOTH sides of the conflict
Good points. Check out this comment too (by riley) which looks at things materially: https://hexbear.net/post/176544/comment/2184998
The post you linked is just more infuriating than the previous one. What's materialist in it? Riley just cites the things that are perceived as good for the working class, but I guess the working class doesn't actually include people in Russia and people in Ukraine. See, this is why online discourse is putrid, wretched and villainous. For you, for Americans, its just geopolitical games where we can support a fascist as long as he contributes to "multipolar world" and does a couple of good things on the side. Materialist analysis of what Putin actually tries to achieve by sending people to die in Ukraine? In this particular situation? Doesn't matter. Putin owns Nazis! We will believe him at his word when he says that there's a genocide of ethnic minorities and shelling of Donbass because he forgave Cuba's debt. Disgusting.
It's a capitalist vs capitalist dogfight. GZD posters are promoting a capitalist war. I could understand if you were defending China, an actual socialist government. I could understand if western leftists were saying "I understand that Putin had his reasons, but any kind of war is unacceptable". This Riley person and GZD are straight cheering on capitalists! Working class of Russia and Ukraine should be in your minds, how people suffer from the consequences of capitalist squabbles, how they die and go hungry. It's unbelievable to me that saying "no war but class war" is this hard for leftists.
And I didn't even touch any nationalist stuff that Putin said in his 1 hour speech, but never mind that. Putin apologists are disgusting and pathetic as it is.
deleted by creator
Good response - thx. Check out this comment too (by riley) which looks at things materially: https://hexbear.net/post/176544/comment/2184998
deleted by creator