We've all heard of the Bechdel test. I know it's not a cure-all to sexism and hidden patriarchy, but it is a good question to ask as a writer.
For those who don't know, the original "Bechdel test" posited that 99% of movies don't have two female characters talking to each other about something other than a male. Basically that women in fiction usually exists just to further the plot of male characters.
My novel is first person PoV of a middle school boy and he's part of a trio with two other teenage girls (these are the main 3 characters). But because he is the only PoV, it can never pass "the Bechdel test." Otherwise, I think I've made the other two main characters fairly fleshed out characters.
I'm no authority, but I think the Bechdel test is meant to be applied on a broader scale. It's not a litmus test for individual works.
If the plot doesn't allow for it, don't sweat it. There are many ways to demonstrate progressive ideas about gender, sexuality, race, economic class, etc. in any work of fiction.
When you have ten different books and none pass the Bechdel test, that's when it's time to be suspicious.
I’m no authority, but I think the Bechdel test is meant to be applied on a broader scale. It’s not a litmus test for individual works.
Yes, exactly this
When you have ten different books
Well we don't have to worry about that lol. Let's see if this ever get's published.
I was referring to hypothetical books chosen from a broad cross-section of authors. Like, if the ten best-selling books don't pass the test, then it's time for concern.
The test is intended more as a thought exercise than as a hard rule. It goes to show how limited our perspective of women in fiction is, if we can't portray them as existing independent of male interests more often than not. But if someone defends a problematic book on the grounds that it passes the Bechdel test, that isn't really much of a defence either.
I was being cheeky. That is a most rational understanding of the Bechdel test than how reddit can present it.
Ah, I wasn't sure. Pardon me if I sounded condescending, but if the internet has taught me anything it's that standards of irony meter calibration vary widely.
it's irrelevant in this case. Focus on making the writing actually progressive, not on passing a test.
There's plenty of stories with nuanced female characters with their own motivations completely independent of any man, who don't happen to talk to each other. Also, there's some pretty sexist stories that DO pass the Bechdel test.
If you want to see how applying it to individual stories rather than more broadly is flawed, technically, all lesbian porn, even the very male gaze heavy ones, passes the Bechdel test.
I'm probably getting too technical on the definition, but I understood it to be two (or more) women talking without the presence of men.
This also might be irrelevant since I'm thinking of giving them each a PoV chapter.
Meh, the idea is to show them as human beans with their own interests unrelated to men :shrug-outta-hecks:
I thought the Bechdel test was two named female characters talking to each other about something that isn't a man
Yeah, my recollection is that it came from the fact that a lot of the time, even when a scene had nothing but women, the overwhelming majority of those scenes were just an excuse for the women to talk about one or more of the male characters. The Bechdel test is about asking the question "are these female characters actually real characters, or are they just props?"
I feel like if you really wanted to you could resolve this by either having a written/recorded exchange (thus escaping the dilemma temporally) between the two women or you could have some intentional/unintentional eavesdropping.
There's some unintentional eavesdropping already, I pretty frequently have the Protagonist walk into a heated exchange between the other two, which they quickly hush to resolve.
The bechdel test has always been kind of a meme rather than anything else, don't take it too seriously.
Don't worry about it.
Look at The Thing, for instance. It instantly fails the Bechdel test by having a 100% male cast, but it's still a story that criticizes toxic masculinity.
I believe Carpenter had an all-male cast because he didn't want any of the characters to be posturing for someone - they are all scared shitless.
