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Weird how this only came up recently, like suddenly we don't like him. I don't support character assassination, unless we are becoming libs. Regardless of his past, if you don't like his takes that's fine. If you bring up his past (rumor or verified) just to take him down just because of a disagreement, then we are no better.
For the sake of argument, let's say he "used" to. You are going to judge him just on that? Ignore all the good he did? Don't forget, there are some in this site who "used" to be ideologically different in the past. Don't like him, that's fine. Don't agree with him, that's fine. But don't do that, dont judge someone because they used to be someone else in the past if they changed. Go after his current opinion. Not his past.
I am not the one who is currently saying "I will work with right wingers". How is that different from someone like Jimmy Dore or Caleb Maupin? Also, he is literally pro NATO and thinks it's good to fight for Ukraine. That's straight up fash behavior. I wouldn't even think about defending someone like that.
How is that different from someone like Jimmy Dore or Caleb Maupin
Ok, first of all, they are grifters and opportunists. So dont compare them to him, the man actually does good work. Second, I dont agree with his take on "working with right wingers" but is not like he hid this part of his character before. He used to give speeches on right-libertarian circles, that's on him.
he is literally pro NATO and thinks it’s good to fight for Ukraine.
Yeah, and that's ok to point out.
That’s straight up fash behavior.
No, you said, he was "ex fash" and that's it, you used his past against him. Listen, I know some people who support Ukraine and their right to defend themselves and have arguments with it. But I dont go around bringing up whatever past they used to have, or previous ideology or beliefs as a counter argument, that's lazy and slime. As I said, you dont need to like him, just dont used his past. THat's gross.
I have stuff in my past that I am not proud of, but I would find it gross if someone would bring it up as a way to counter my arguments, instead of debating the actual argument, dont do that.
Sounds a lot like you're projecting. If anyone is encouraging to fight alongside Nazi groups then they're by association Nazi. Don't lecture me on what to say about some random white YouTuber who continues to have right wing takes masquerading as a left winger. Pointing out that you also had a lot of right wing takes isn't some redeeming moment to POCs like me. I don't feel comfortable with how openly white dudes say "I used to be ex fash but I am now left wing but still talk along the same line as right wingers on many topics".
Trafficking humans to work is wage slaves isn't some good thing either. You should really think about it before defending him.
Trafficking humans to work is wage slaves isn’t some good thing either.
so, tell the people who want to move to a different place to survive to just stay? I dont disagree with you with becoming a wage slave and the problems of brain drain, but if someone wants to move to a different location for "reasons" they should be allowed to do it.
oh, now you are putting me in the spotlight? Is this fine with yuou? you dont know me, dont do that.
I don’t feel comfortable with how openly white dudes say “I used to be ex fash but I am now left wing but still talk along the same line as right wingers on many topics”.
Fine, you dont have to feel comfortable. And I am telling you using someone's past is not a good enough argument, is lazy.
If anyone is encouraging to fight alongside Nazi groups then they’re by association Nazi.
Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact. It was a bad idea, but dont pretend like this is new or unusual.
I said me and others, as in general, not specific. People constantly change, that's nothing new. are you telling me you never changed? you never had bad takes/ideas in thepast?!
uh well no, i'm not saying i've never had terrible takes or done terrible things. i don't really share your (apparent?) belief that those things can be fully divorced from who i am now, or that my changing frees me from criticism of my past actions or beliefs.
that aside, while simply dismissing him as "ex-fash" may be reductive or whatever, given his opinions still seem heavily tinted by his past experiences and beliefs, i don't really see the harm in doing so? like it seems to flavor his current mindset pretty heavily, which should not be a controversial thing to suggest
that aside, while simply dismissing him as “ex-fash” may be reductive or whatever, given his opinions still seem heavily tinted by his past experiences and beliefs, i don’t really see the harm in doing so?
sure, but that's not what I am seeing. All I see is people posting/saying he is "ex fash" without context, just saying it and moving on without making a good argument like that's enough.
i count like one person doing that, but i also don't necessarily care enough to go through and verify. i just don't think defending him is worthwhile at this juncture
An "ex fash" human trafficker seems cool?
When was he ex fash? I didn’t know that
Weird how this only came up recently, like suddenly we don't like him. I don't support character assassination, unless we are becoming libs. Regardless of his past, if you don't like his takes that's fine. If you bring up his past (rumor or verified) just to take him down just because of a disagreement, then we are no better.
It's not about "not liking takes" when he literally takes the same stance as the US state department.
then argue on that, not on his past beliefs.
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For the sake of argument, let's say he "used" to. You are going to judge him just on that? Ignore all the good he did? Don't forget, there are some in this site who "used" to be ideologically different in the past. Don't like him, that's fine. Don't agree with him, that's fine. But don't do that, dont judge someone because they used to be someone else in the past if they changed. Go after his current opinion. Not his past.
I am not the one who is currently saying "I will work with right wingers". How is that different from someone like Jimmy Dore or Caleb Maupin? Also, he is literally pro NATO and thinks it's good to fight for Ukraine. That's straight up fash behavior. I wouldn't even think about defending someone like that.
Ok, first of all, they are grifters and opportunists. So dont compare them to him, the man actually does good work. Second, I dont agree with his take on "working with right wingers" but is not like he hid this part of his character before. He used to give speeches on right-libertarian circles, that's on him.
Yeah, and that's ok to point out.
No, you said, he was "ex fash" and that's it, you used his past against him. Listen, I know some people who support Ukraine and their right to defend themselves and have arguments with it. But I dont go around bringing up whatever past they used to have, or previous ideology or beliefs as a counter argument, that's lazy and slime. As I said, you dont need to like him, just dont used his past. THat's gross.
I have stuff in my past that I am not proud of, but I would find it gross if someone would bring it up as a way to counter my arguments, instead of debating the actual argument, dont do that.
Sounds a lot like you're projecting. If anyone is encouraging to fight alongside Nazi groups then they're by association Nazi. Don't lecture me on what to say about some random white YouTuber who continues to have right wing takes masquerading as a left winger. Pointing out that you also had a lot of right wing takes isn't some redeeming moment to POCs like me. I don't feel comfortable with how openly white dudes say "I used to be ex fash but I am now left wing but still talk along the same line as right wingers on many topics".
Trafficking humans to work is wage slaves isn't some good thing either. You should really think about it before defending him.
so, tell the people who want to move to a different place to survive to just stay? I dont disagree with you with becoming a wage slave and the problems of brain drain, but if someone wants to move to a different location for "reasons" they should be allowed to do it.
oh, now you are putting me in the spotlight? Is this fine with yuou? you dont know me, dont do that.
Fine, you dont have to feel comfortable. And I am telling you using someone's past is not a good enough argument, is lazy.
Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact. It was a bad idea, but dont pretend like this is new or unusual.
? didn't you just use yourself as a comparative example? why bring it up if you didn't want to open yourself up to commentary?
I said me and others, as in general, not specific. People constantly change, that's nothing new. are you telling me you never changed? you never had bad takes/ideas in thepast?!
uh well no, i'm not saying i've never had terrible takes or done terrible things. i don't really share your (apparent?) belief that those things can be fully divorced from who i am now, or that my changing frees me from criticism of my past actions or beliefs.
that aside, while simply dismissing him as "ex-fash" may be reductive or whatever, given his opinions still seem heavily tinted by his past experiences and beliefs, i don't really see the harm in doing so? like it seems to flavor his current mindset pretty heavily, which should not be a controversial thing to suggest
sure, but that's not what I am seeing. All I see is people posting/saying he is "ex fash" without context, just saying it and moving on without making a good argument like that's enough.
i count like one person doing that, but i also don't necessarily care enough to go through and verify. i just don't think defending him is worthwhile at this juncture
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I said not good enough if one wants to make an argument about why their current position is wrong. read the comments.