• cracksmoke2020 [none/use name]
      1·
      4 years ago

      I'm not talking about what a leftist would believe, I'm talking about a random swing voter, and socialists are doing themselves a disservice if they deny why Trump is popular to a particular group of people beyond just his fascist rhetoric.

      Fascism has popularity beyond for just the purposes of racism, the way fascists coopt leftist language has been a key part of their success wherever they've popped up.

      There are people who vote in every election, and they always view it as a choice between two evils. A subset of white small town working class voters will decide Trump is that lesser evil on the basis of trade and how he won't get rid of their jobs due to environmental regulation. Do I agree with that, no, but there is a valid argument there, and it was a primary reason why Bernie was a stronger candidate against Trump than Biden, and especially Hillary in 2016.

      Fascism isn't defeated by just saying it's bad, you need to understand the very real logic for how people feel globalization hurt their communities, and present a solution centered around how exactly you plan on bringing jobs back to their communities (a green new deal is a fantastic opportunity to help these places and drag them back to the left).

        • cracksmoke2020 [none/use name]
          2·
          4 years ago

          I seriously don't understand how someone who thinks of themselves as some sort of socialist is able to unironically make an argument that is completely detached from materialism.

          You can argue that regardless of material concern these people still need to be faught, and I'd mostly agree with you that all legitimate Trump supporters do need to be faught. The difference is that not all Trump voters are Trump supporters. Elections are won on the margins, and marginal Trump voters aren't the same has his deeply fascist base.

        • cracksmoke2020 [none/use name]
          1·
          4 years ago

          I was the OP you replied to and I still agree with most of this, you just need to recognize why rural white people feel the way they do.

          Base your analysis in materialism rather than the idea that people are just inherently racist.

            • cracksmoke2020 [none/use name]
              1·
              4 years ago

              I'm not talking about right wing ideologues holy shit, not every Trump voter from 2016 was a hardcore supporter. That's like saying every Bernie supporter was a far off socialist, when we know that wasn't the case.

              The basis for this conversation is that there are white working class people who felt Trump was doing more for them than Biden. It has absolutely nothing to do with any of this other stuff you're talking about, these people are single issue bring the jobs back voters that supported democrats for decades before voting for Trump. I'm talking about the people who voted for Obama twice, they probably voted for Ross Perot in the 90s because of his free trade position.

              These people probably haven't thought about foreign policy much and when they do it was against things like the Iraq war (another rhetorical thing Trump can hold over Bidens head).

              Please take a step back from your high horse and understand why fascism is rising in our country, the reasons are material.

          • RadRev [none/use name]
            ·
            4 years ago

            You don't think that Trump's rhetoric is emboldening people like Kyle Rittenhouse who are fucking murdering our comrades in the streets?

            • amateurnouns [none/use name]
              1·
              4 years ago

              That shit doesn't matter. Rittenhouse is an obvious waste of skin who ought to be shipped off to the bottom of the ocean, but incidents like this are absolutely insignificant in any larger way.

            • amateurnouns [none/use name]
              3·
              4 years ago

              I'm not shilling for Trump, you lib, he's obviously bad but l-fucking-mao if you think electing Biden is going to remotely help end the American civil religion.

                • Mrtryfe [none/use name]
                  2·
                  4 years ago

                  You have to be extremely white and lib to think that electing Biden will make the racists go away, or make them less explicit. There's already smoke about viewing any Trump loss as indicative of the establishment conspiring against him. You really believe that the fanatical nature informing those types of views is going to get less explicit somehow? Bizarre take.

                  Also, these aren't neocons. The neocons are over at the Lincoln Project, doing their own little psyop in order to gain relevancy again. These are full blown fascists forming militias, and gunning down civilians. You're out of your fucking mind if you think this is going away.