Normally I don't interact with reddit but I saw this and found it interesting. This post is dripping with the alienation women feel from patriarchal norms and it feels like women in general have a bit of radical frustration brewing.
oof
Yeah, it's not just politics men will lie about.
My sister told stories of guys who lied about lots of things, pretending to be something they thought she'd want in a man. They'd lie about how much money they made, what their jobs were, all kinds of stuff. Why would a guy willing to lie about his job and his income find a pang of conscience and be honest about his political beliefs?
One of our sons is gay, and our daughter discovered that referring to "my brother and his boyfriend" (now "husband," thank you 2015 Supreme Court) had a way of exposing cracks in men's façades. They'd pretend to be progressive - after all, if they really followed they conservative ideals they promoted they wouldn't want sex at all until marriage - but their faces would change a little when they found she had a gay brother with a boyfriend.
Askmen's response
Posted THIS in r/askmen. I’ve noticed the disparities in responses in womens vs mens and it will hopefully be interesting.
Adding user responses below:
Easier that way. When men are together and no women are around you probably wouldn't believe the things that come out of the mouthes of your brother, father, lover, son, etc. I work with all women and am one of 5 guys, which 0 are on my shift with me. Anytime politics or religion or anything comes up like it does all day every day I just shut my mouth and agree with whatever they say or pretend to be aloof and like they are teaching me something. Much easier that way because being factually correct and being "right" are two totally different things and sorry ladies but we all know which one of those you strive to be.
For the pussy
To get laid
I DID IT ALL FOR THE NOOKIE
Sometimes it's just about getting laid
I keep reading "I will hide my support of parties that support various forms of misogyny until I get the thing I want from the people affected by that misogyny" and Jesus fuck you could consider maybe, just fucking maybe, if you have to be dishonest to get what you want maybe you're on the wrong damn side. Somehow being a lying selfish asshole has become virtue signaling to other men which is exactly how societies fall apart or go to civil war. It's not because you have a dick. It's because you're an asshole that you have to lie to get pussy.
Men don't, Republicans do.
You know why.
Because their opinions if expressed would make a vagina dry up faster than the Sahara Desert.
To get laid.
We're willing to listen to your delusional bs, inflated sense of self-importance and narcissism for the brief access to your clam.
You're welcome.
There’s only one reason and it’s pretty obvious.
This sounds exclusive to people with conservative political views. In which case they are aware women won't like their actual opinions, so they decieve someone into sleeping with them.
If you are terrified of being deceived, simply make an excessive amount of abortion jokes. Liberal guys most likely won't care but you will push a conservatives buttons and they will show some slight resistance, probably.
Because they're trying to have sex, not debate how ridiculous the Democratic party has become.
To get laid. I won't tell women around I think immigrants can GTFO because women are sensitive and that's irrilevant for my goal.
Because our views on politics aren't that important, but some people think they are. Just because I think something today doesn't mean I'm willing to die for it or even that I'll have the same idea tomorrow.
Frankly my view on politics is so unimportant to me that I don't really defend it. But if I share it, people have instantly branded me a far- right bigot and then there's no convincing them otherwise.
I just would want something that dumb to come between a potentially great relationship.
We do it to get laid.
Because the competition is lying as well. Gotta keep up.
Cause they trying to get that punani
Is this a real question?? Like really??
Because he knows no woman would be willing to.sleep with him if they know how he really feels
I don't lie about anything. I am also not very successful with pursuing women. Anecdotal evidence but take it for what you will
Admits they're a liar, manipulative, weak-willed and shallow and seems proud of that. Then they'll spread the trope that women are the manipulative ones.
What the fuck dudes
"Why don't women give me a chance?"
But also
"I'm going to be a lying piece of shit just to get laid and think of you as an object."
See, this kind of shit is why I have trust issues with men. How do I know they're not all laughing behind my back that they tricked me into believing they're a decent person?
What if all my male friends aren't really my friends?
What if all my male friends aren’t really my friends?
Like 90% of men I meet admit that they believe men only have friendships with women they're trying to sleep with.
If I didn't overlook this I probably wouldn't have any relationships with men at all because if that's the number that admit to it there's also some that are just outright lying when they say they don't believe that.
This was always frustrating to me before I realized I was trans. It felt like there were so many hoops I had to jump through to convince women I wasn’t just trying to sleep with them. An inability to differentiate between types of attraction and gender envy did not help this
It's real putting the ends before the means hours. It doesn't matter how they get a relationship so long as they get there. Real advice isn't as valuable as RooshV-style cheatcodes because they're too infantile to even put up with a deferred reward achieved through genuine investment.
its happened to me. it was really bad, like basically 1 step from fascism and he thought he could convert me :yea: luckily found a good communist
the sad thing is i had sex with the other guy and then he decided to spill the beans after i found some nazi shit in his literal closet :sadness-abysmal: he was all like 'oooh a friend just gave me that' at first lmfao do you think i have 1 brain cell
Why do people do this shit.
I went camping with some folks before COVID, we drink around the fire, talk about stuff, shits cool. I wake up the next morning and one of the guys is wearing his father's army jacket with the apartheid South Africa flag patch on it! Wtf I was legit scared. Imagine if he knew I was bi or something.
Unrelated question, but what kind of connotation does the old apartheid-era flag hold in South Africa? Like, what would happen to a white South African walking down the street in Johannesburg with that flag on a t-shirt?
Very racist connotation. You'd be beat up, it's illegal to display aside for legitimate historical or artistic purposes, like a museum or film about the past.
Jesus, I'm sorry.
It is really fuckin weird how conservatives are drawn to us like flies to honey. They seem to think cis-women are pathologically unbearable harpies, but because some femboys are nazis it shouldn't be hard to convert transfems.
4chan is a weird place.
idk if he was a 4channer or not. he just did a bernie bro twinky aesthetic and the mask started to slip when i was reading about some bills back then on trans restrictions and he was very callous and didnt give a shit about it. later found that shit in his closet. like it was really bizarre, he even introduced me to his mom so he definitely thought that he could work his scheme out
A lot of Bernie bros were former channers. The reason I suspect that is because you don't have to dig very deep to find fetishy threads, and boomer-demographic chud sites tend to stick with disgust rather than the hate-because-attracted thing you see in younger rightwingers. It's been a thing since the 00s.
like with this experience fr i go feral whenever people say 'trans people are lying about who they are to have sex with cissies!'. nah motherfucker its the MEN who are lying, ALL THE TIME. stop projecting
like my paranoia was so bad after this that i literally gave my current bf a marxist history test
like my paranoia was so bad after this that i literally gave my current bf a marxist history test
Question 3: Name 3 revisionists and your reasoning for each answer. No checking wikipedia.
Question 3: Name 3 revisionists and your reasoning for each answer. No checking wikipedia.
This is how you end up with a concrete bunker in your living room. :hoxha-turt:
To fash freaks sex is an act of violence and domination
They still characterize themselves as the sad unloved incel despite it all.
Fun fact: a whole book was written about how studies showed women living in communist countries had better, more fulfilling sex lives.
its true. my bf has made me cum 2000x more than all the other fuckin libs ive dated. he says he cant get off without me doing it first cause he loves to see how i shake and hear the noises i make. he sometimes even chains them up on me just to turn my brain into liquid :meow-melt:
ladies first :fidel-cool:
Goddamn. Does he have, like, a brother or other siblings who are single?
:hyperflush:
lmao your response time on this was top notch :rosa-salute: The search continues :soviet-huff: ___
:agony-turbo: What the FUCK is wrong with people, I'm so sorry that happened. :pit: :stalin-gun-1::stalin-gun-2:
also like he KNEW i was trans what the fuck was he expecting
fucking chasers
:trans-gun::maduro-katana-2: We're gonna put all these fuckers in an ultra-gulag. :meow-hug:
I dated a guy once who claimed to be communist, openly actually, before I was open about being more than wearing that old classic Bernie Sanders Enjoyer fursona we use for interacting with normal people.
But he didn't have extensive knowledge or interest in President Xi. Ok, fine, there's other types of communists. He wasn't really a fan of Stalin. Ok, whatever. He didn't know who Hoxha or Sankura was. That's fine, I don't technically know who Lenin is. He wasn't a fan of Lenin anyways. OK, so he's an anarchist? He didn't seem to know who Kropotkin or Grimes was. This was before V**sh was thing.
I would have broken it off eventually, but unrelated things caused me to break it off earlier.
yeah my ex would do shit like that. if i grilled him i kept making excuses in my head like 'eh maybe hes just bad at history' or something.
i learned to stop making excuses for people. if they suck, they suck
OK, so he’s an anarchist? He didn’t seem to know who Kropotkin or Grimes was
This is sectarianism lmao
Damn that sucks. How'd you meet and how far did you go before realizing? What were the signs?
dating site, ~3 months of seeing each other about 2 days per week. there were lot of little things that added up. like how he'd usually be tonally dismissive of certain things politically while saying something else. first i just chocked it up to him being distracted / thinking about other things but apparently it was just a whole lot of lying and he spilled the beans at the end
Frankly my view on politics is so unimportant to me that I don’t really defend it. But if I share it, people have instantly branded me a far- right bigot and then there’s no convincing them otherwise.
:pit: NOOOOO I'M NOT BIGOTED I JUST HAVE ALL THE SAME OPINIONS AS BIGOTS I DON'T ACTUALLY CARE THAT MUCH.
Those edits JFC:
Edit: someone sent Reddit Cares my way. I am actually thankful because I wasn’t doing so well mentally. Thank you for the amazing responses everyone! I am truly grateful. I am 19F and still quite inexperienced when it comes to dating so I just wanted to understand the motivations behind this lying and deceiving. But I received a lot of in-depth answers that are honestly very enriching and helpful. I am extremely grateful! :)
Edit 2: I love how a question about some men’s dishonesty regarding their political beliefs just to get date someone welcomed a bunch of maidenless folks crying about women’s extreme political beliefs. It’s like magic. As if women aren’t allowed to disagree with you so you’ll HAVE to lie and deceive to get your way.
Edit 3: The American conservative men in my DMs are ANGRY. Like full on kill-yourself-foid level angry. I wonder why. Bless Reddit’s awesome block feature though.
Can't even trust self described leftists either with weirdos like Haz and Vaush and their cohorts running around.
Basically just means we'll have to increase the sophistication of our filtering methods and then get treated like ice queens for it.
my filtering methods got so sophisticated that i skipped over 3000 dudes on dating apps until i found a good marxist man
i can smell reactionaries now.
I dunno, I haven't tried this, but what about pretending to be a conservative Christian girl? Then they out themselves instantly. Actually, probably you're better off having a friend pretend.
i look like an archetypical conservative christian girl so i already had a ton of people on dating apps just immediately out themselves to me and skip over the whole 'im trans and a communist' bit :shrug-outta-hecks:
during my extremely brief time dating as a 'gay guy' honestly a lot of the gay guys seemed way more wholesome than the cishets
Gay men will be like "why are the majority of so-called bisexuals in straight relationships" and it's like, dude, have you met men? I'm not even friends with men.
It honestly sounds like a collection of the most misogynistic people I've ever met, all congregating in one place.
:reddit-logo: is a really weird website, super misogynistic yet full on "simps" (god I hate that fucking word, can't think of a better one though) at the same time. These guys literally have zero self worth, apparently their misogynistic right wing politics are super important, yet they'll throw it all away at the slightest chance of getting laid.
Yeah, it's really extremely pathetic. These are the supposed "alpha males"?
I remember hbomberguy joked that since the alpha/beta thing only applies to wolves in captivity, all these guys are really just bragging about how self-important they'd be if you locked them in a cage. :data-laughing:
Patriarchal masculinity is a prison. Much respect to our transmasc comrades in constructing less toxic experiences of masculinity
"Simps" are some of the biggest misogynists. They draw their self-worth from controlling women (not even really sex, but "having" one), but feel like they're too weak to do it in the "asshole" way. There's usually a big heap of Madonna/Wh*** complex going on too. Sad.
It's really weird, like years ago I saw a post on the relationship advice subreddit, and they were defending a woman for cheating on her husband. But it was in a misogynistic way by devaluing the cheating relationship because the woman cheated with another woman, so it wasn't as bad as if she had cheated with a man.
Made me feel all weird inside.
I think someone on there put it succinctly when they said "men think they're the main character in their own story."
They all think they're some James Bond deceiving ass person for some reason.
Don't they realise his relationships never last longer than the film lol.
You're probably thinking "there's no way dating is like this for women."
Is it.
I have absolutely no idea how anyone can consciously put effort into dating. Being alone sucks but also fuuuuuuuuck
It's not super sensible but I'm a commie because I like human beings, at least theoretically. :shrug-outta-hecks:
I have my moments haha but thank you :heart-sickle: You’ve been very kind to me the past couple days and I appreciate it
Well I've been preaching a lot about alienation #onhere so I'd like to live by that code of conduct. :cat-trans:
I keep reading "I will hide my support of parties that support various forms of misogyny until I get the thing I want from the people affected by that misogyny" and Jesus fuck you could consider maybe, just fucking maybe, if you have to be dishonest to get what you want maybe you're on the wrong damn side. Somehow being a lying selfish asshole has become virtue signaling to other men which is exactly how societies fall apart or go to civil war. It's not because you have a dick. It's because you're an asshole that you have to lie to get pussy.
:only-good-gamer:
there's also probably a difference between :reddit-logo: users--and on certain subs, no less--and... idk... people volunteering at the local animal shelter or something. toxic masculinity and whatnot is a societal, widespread, systemic problem. So it's not the least bit surprising that in manifests in toxic behaviors for huge numbers of people.
But I think communist ideals demand that we don't write off most of the population; rather, we spend time and energy with the people who ARE worth it, and work with those people to dismantle the systems that make the rest of the population hard to be with.
@raynecorp on TikTok put it best: (paraphrasing) A man who is performatively engaged with feminist theory is nothing compared to a man who willingly shares in domestic and emotional labor
I absolutely love her writing and her TikTok. Apparently she’s getting popular enough that a few men have listed her in their Tinder bios to try and fuck some depressed leftist women, as she put it. This was more or less her response.
Apparently she’s getting popular enough that a few men have listed her in their Tinder bios to try and fuck some depressed leftist women
:kombucha-disgust:
Never date a dude who likes things depressed women like. 90% of the time it's performance. The rest of the time they just haven't come out yet.
there’s also probably a difference between :reddit-logo: users–and on certain subs, no less–and… idk… people volunteering at the local animal shelter or something.
You'd be surprised
Thats funking bonkers, why don't they go hook up with conservative women at their local church?
Church women are a lot more likely to wait for a more committed relationship to have sex. Also if you’re a regular at a church, casually hooking up with congregation members can have a real “shitting where you sleep” vibe
There's a difference between pious/heavily religious conservatives and rich/upper middle class conservatives.
They believe women to be children and their mighty conservative cock will make them grow up and forget about being a silly sjw. Conservative men have a diseased mind.
They probably just want a blowjob on the weekends and then to find someone new after a few weeks
A lot of people in there think women lean left, which honestly shows just how far right our public discourse has shifted, because while men have a very large and well documented right-wing shift during the Reagan years the tendency for women was to remain where they were.
it's not only that. men being more conservative - sometimes drastically so - isn't something exclusively american. women are socialized as 'caretakers' broadly, which means that they uphold a basic notion of human dignity, meanwhile men are socialised to be cold brutes who generally assert their dominance/masculinity by doing or saying psycho shit. being a reactionary is one of the most socially acceptable ways to act like a sociopath, so a lot of men choose that path.
This is why american psycho is a great movie, but also seeing chuds miss the point is so weird.
A lot of men really do lie to women and see no problem with it. I used to get accused of being gay because I didn't want to outright fuck every woman I interacted with. It's a very toxic mindset that a lot of men are plagued with.
I have friends that are gay men and are confused I'm not pursuing every girl I talk to. The misogyny runs deep.
So this is just like, the normal dominant abuse culture that nearly veryone is affected by, huh
How do we fix cis men?
fixing the underlying systems that foment toxic masculinity.
as a small thing, for example, normalizing platonic same-sex affection for straight cis men. straight cis men are cruelly deprived of any sort of physical or emotional intimacy other than with a potential sexual partner, and it really does a number on people without them realizing it. where straight cis girls will hug each other and cuddle and tell each other they love them, guys don't feel comfortable--or aren't allowed to feel comfortable--doing the same thing. and this becomes just one of the many things that motivate (but do not excuse!) inappropriate behavior in straight cis men.
Fun fact: ~200 years ago men in western countries would sit in each other laps, hold hands while walking together, and write incredibly affectionate letters to each other.
How do we fix cis men?
not your job. it's their job to fix themselves. if they're humble enough to ask for help, and you have the time and energy to spare, I suppose that's ok, but you really must not expect yourself to be the atlas holding up the world for the chuds
I dont think it is my job, I think it is the job of wider society. And like, to a lesser extent, how do we fight against misogyny in community spaces?
I'm just saying if your efforts to reeducate a misogynist fall flat, it's not your fault, it's theirs. They fundamentally have to be receptive for reeducation to work, but if they're not receptive, they are a danger to women, and ought to be excluded from the community space. It's their job to fix themselves, and part of that means being receptive to new information.
I kinda agree and disagree. Like it's a very special (read: unlikely) situation if a guy is somehow converted to having good takes through raw effort. But if we don't have a culture exemplifying the healthy alternative then nothing will fundamentally change because the chud option will be the only option presented.
While I have :spray-bottle: @kristina in the past for hornyposting about her bf, I think there is something to being a living example of a good relationship so others have something to work toward and not the volcel void (the despairing part, not the :volcel-judge: part) I've seen pretty frequently among alienated folks.
The difference with @kristina’s occasional horny post is that it’s not directed at anyone here. It’s like the difference between someone riffing on the sex they had last night as a bit vs hitting on you. Sex pests will absolutely try to blur that line though, which makes it tricky
But also these kinds of behaviors present themselves as mass pathologies because they have structural causes. Don't try to fix individual men (except maybe if they're super hot?). Instead, understand fighting patriarchy as part of the communist cause.
I think it's transphobic to try and exclude trans men from this tbh.
Trans men can take part in misogyny sure, it just seems like they're more aware of it than cis men IME
In my experience trans men are often more aware of it. Some of my trans masc friends have talked with me about they can struggle with this though as in some cases misogyny can feel gender affirming. I unfortunately understand that as someone who tried to overcompensate when I was a young teenager before I realized I was a girl.
Masculinity is difficult to construct in a healthy way because of how much the patriarchy has warped it. Full support to everyone doing the work of building new notions of what it means to be an empathetic and healthy guy.
