It is such a common element of culture but when I look closely it doesn't make too much sense.
What are the general characteristics of a nerd?
- Smart and interested in academics.
- Physically underdeveloped and bad at sports.
- Socially awkward and unattractive.
Does this cluster make sense to you?
Sure, health problems can make you both unattractive (and subsequently awkward) and small/weak/uncoordinated. But what do smarts have to do with this? I'm guessing statistically a healthy kid is likely to do better at school than an unhealthy one.
So how do nerds come to be?
Is that because kids who don't do well socially are more motivated to excel academically?
Do smart cool athletic kids refrain from getting into nerd stuff because it's frowned upon in the cool circles?
Is being a nerd a sort of a "mild" autistic spectrum thing?
Also, a follow up question. Are nerds actually smarter on average by any measurement? Why or why not?
For decades, programming and much of computer science was considered “women’s work” (while “real men” did mathematics and engineering
how does that work though? They're both indoor activities that require no physical fitness
Women computer back then we're not mining coal, but it was still a demanding physical job. Sure it had mental components, but for 10 hours calculate shit with tools and a bad posture has physical requirements which were worse in terms of ergonomics than what was possible with computers, screens and not expensive chairs.
In times before that eye strain came into being, too, since the amount of light needed to not go blind or get trouble with your eyes was only codified into regulation after modern worker movements fought for unionizations and follow-ups. However female work was devalued even within unions often, not seldom cause it wasn't real work, but just "busy work" which in my eyes means work you don't know shit about cause child care, organizing a shop as secretary, birthing kids, care work, reproductive work are not nothing. This has effects that wages were lower and even today with the same task set in Germany university secretaries (typically women role) are lower paid than equivalent make worker jobs in the same sector.
So what we should always try to do is be intersectional in how we don't lose marginalized people and those we ourselves marginalize and be willing to support self acting marginalized classes in society.
i fucking love science (the immortal science of marxism-leninism)
You're looking at it the wrong way. The actual definition is "Children and young people who were stigmatized, sometimes violently, for their interests or characteristics during the 80s and 90s."
The characteristics of nerds are a set of characteristics for which people were stigmatized and ostracized at a particular period in time. The stigma has gone but the group remains.
In American culture there's been a strong anti-intellectual thread. So if you study harder than you hang out with people, you're kinda an outcast, same as the kid who listens to metal instead of rock, or reads comics past the age it's socially acceptable.
People have given me examples of specific movies that had jumpstarted the trope and claimed that it's perpetuated by marketing, but I was born in the Soviet Union and it seems like we had a very similar archetype behind the iron curtain – an awkward unassuming guy/kid in glasses who's into books and science. The Russian word for this kind of person is "botanist" for some reason.
The Russian word for this kind of person is “botanist” for some reason.
Calling a nerdy classmate "Lysenko". What's he going to do, move my desk too close to my neighbor's? :troll:
Convergent evolution? Might just be autistic people who are bright and socially awkward kids with weird interests get lumped together. Kinda have to hang out with each other because most people won't hang out with them.
The Russian word for this kind of person is “botanist” for some reason.
makes perfect sense actually
people who are interested in taxonomy, especially of plants, invertebrates, and other "marginal" organisms (aka anything that isn't lions, tigers, wooly mammoths) are probably interested in understanding/knowing things for its own sake
Most nerd culture properties come from a pre-internet age and are just called upon as cultural touchstone rather than as lived reality. iirc most valedictorians are athletes too (b/c you're always told top colleges want to see those extracurriculars baby)
iirc most valedictorians are athletes too (b/c you’re always told top colleges want to see those extracurriculars baby)
the fact that regular exercise helps memory and brain function also might be a factor
The "smartness" is an emergent property.
Nerds are just a specific type of social outcast. Conventially "unathletic or unattractive" people whose common interest involves something cognitive or academic (e.g., chess). This leads to the painting of these types of outcasts as "smart". Sometimes academic achievement itself is the unifying common interest, at which point the conventional model of the "nerd" you describe is achieved.
If the unattractive and unathletic outcasts form around a non-cognitive interest, they are still social outcasts they just aren't called nerds. Consider "mall rats" etc
Is there causality though? Does being unathletic or unattractive make people focused on academics? Does being good at cognitive things make you forgo sports? Do both of those properties happen in one person by coincidence?
I'm terrible at both. People just called me a fucking loser removed in school
Kind of yeah. You're naturally going to do things that you're better at because winning gives a dopamine hit but losing doesn't.
The less you practice something the worse you'll be. So there's a feedback loop.
Otherwise, no. There are plenty of athletic people who love chess and vice versa. This is just true in a large trend sense.
Does being unathletic or unattractive make people focused on academics?
Probably not. There are lots of smart hot people. We're wandering in to brain calipers territory. There's still a lot of debate as to whether "intelligence" as a general term is even useful scientifically.
You're looking at a strawman made up by hollywood and asking questions about it as if it pertains to a deeper reality irl. This is all an excuse for normies to single out and mock anyone who their hivemind considers "weak" to advance their own social standing within their respective hierarchies. Its the logical conclusion of a liberaloid education system that incentivizes individualism, competition, domination, and the creation of hierarchy. People are groomed to bully and ostracize anyone who is different from what is considered either normal or desirable, in terms of strength, physical appearance, hobbies, etc.
Hatred for weakness and powerlessness is one of the only true "values" that a liberaloid soyciety actually instills, in practice. We don't even need to go far to observe this. Every single standard dunk and own on the internet is based on labeling the opponent as weak, weird, and/or impotent, nothing based on any other values, such as insulting someone for a lack of empathy or kindness, insofar as this implies a weakness or inadequacy within their psyche.
What could be worse? Imo it all boils down to this.
rightoids/brainwormed normies hate lgbt+ people because being lgbt+ is seen as weird, weak (failed as cishet so etc. etc.), and impotent (no hetero mating = no kids = not doing what
porky and the marketim sorry m'lord jesus christ says is right)virgin, a common insult, especially for men, adheres to this too, because no bitches = failed at impressing mate = no desirable characteristics = weak and impotent/weird
ex: calling someone :le-pol-face: is a powerful insult because it taps into this ur-logic that is fundamental to the superstructure
even calling someone any variation of "idiot/rtrd" adheres to this, because youre basically saying they are too mentally feeble/socially impotent to perform otherwise "correct" behaviour/arrive at the "correct" position, ableism against neurodiverse people spawns from this, because ND people make more social "blunders" than NT people and so liberaloid soyciety sees them as better targets due to this "weakness"
the N-word is also a good example, because its basically calling someone a slave (weak/inferior) when used as an insult by non-black people
every single one of the most "powerful" insults that usually end an argument/debate entail using a form of this logic to label your opponent as fundamentally inferior to either yourself or an ideal
It WAS, at one point a way to try to shame a person who was spending lots of time doing a thing that other groups/society labeled as "not a good use of time" or "you're really in to something that won't help you socially."
You could be a kid and kill yourself, sometimes literally, by playing sports in school and nobody would have batted an eye in the 80's/90's. You could be a straight A student, winning academic contests but so long as you had some ability to function socially, you'd be showered with praise.
BUT, if you were really into heavy metal or collectible card games or video games, reading fiction, well then "You aren't spending your time wisely, you're spending too much time focusing on something that won't help you interact socially with other people. Stop being a nerd."
This has changed as time as gone on, things that were very niche have become embraced by society, and it just means somebody who's good at or very knowledgeable about video games, book learning stuff, comics, cartoons/anime that extends into adulthood.
Uses of "nerd" that I've been exposed to over the years.
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Nerd used as a label for somebody who spends more time doing something they enjoy that isn't enjoyed but the people they are around. So you'd be chastised for spending time alone or in small tight groups that formed around a particular hobby that keeps you from expanding your social circle. Example: spending all your free time playing sports - not a nerd. Society places value on sports, players, etc and there is a socially approved social environment that comes with being involved in sports. Spending all your time learning sports stats - a nerd.
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Nerd used as an insult when somebody knows a lot about something and corrects a person who doesn't know as much. Sometimes its a more innocent thing (being the know it all of a group). Sometimes its showing that a person is offended or uncomfortable by the correction the "nerd" makes or how intense they were when issuing the correction or expounding on a topic they know/care a lot about.
I grew up in a household where athletics wasn't really that important but my mom read voraciously. My one attempt at doing sports, baseball for a few years, ended when my lack of confidence was met with a little league coach who REALLY wanted to win and just yelled at me for the better part of the season. (Pretty sure I was just following a few friends who were more into athletics that I was.) So I just defaulted into nerdom being a small, not terribly athletic person with zero confidence in my physical ability and no one around who would let me do athletic stuff in a way that me not being good would get in the way.
Ironically, late middle/early high school, I got into a sports day camp over the summer (basically poor kids being babysat at the local university on the government's dime) and it was kinda nice. There was some competition and occasionally shit talk, but for the most part everybody pretty much knew that everybody was going to suck and to just try your best and mostly have fun. There was very little pressure to be/get good.
And now nerds do the shitty "git gud" bullshit over online games. there's no escape :agony-minion:
Is that really a thing outside the dark souls community? Also gamers have been shits about gaming for decades. It's a major plot point in The Wizard in '89 and is probably just a continuation from people being shitty about Chess, which dates it back to like 800ad.
As soon as esports got popular, I recognized a marked increase in terrible attitudes
Competitive gaming and its consequences have been a disaster for video game culture.
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I feel like part of it is definitely that certain types of hobby used to be socially unacceptable. Maybe not unacceptable, just looked down on?
Stuff like working on electronics, reading comics, or speculative fiction, or playing table top games.
So then if you weren't able to compete in more physically demanding hobbies, you'd do this stuff and get shunned by the other kids as a result. Similarly if you were just interested in these things, engaging with them and being seen to engage with them caused you to lose social prestige.
I think that being cut off from socialization outside of your small circle of friends is not great for improving your social skills so the problem naturally exacerbated itself.
I do think that this is all basically a relic of the past though, "nerd culture" is just pop culture now.
:this:
i also feel that the usage of the word "nerd" itself is changing. i know guys i'd call car nerds, or sports nerds, or hip hop nerds, simply because they're into that in a nerdy way where they have a ton of obscure knowledge that they collect obsessively.
introverted activites used to consist of mostly introverts
now that smartphones exist, everybody uses the internet even outside of their house, so it is now an extrovert space
these extroverts' interests now overlap with the former nerds
You see, while the jockish brainpan is too small to form intelligent thoughts beyond "sports" and "sex", the superior nerdoid brain is fully capable of completing such thoughts, such as "I don't play sports" and "I don't have sex"
