- cross-posted to:
- worldnews@lemmy.ml
- cross-posted to:
- worldnews@lemmy.ml
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/pope-says-ukraine-should-have-courage-white-flag-negotiations-2024-03-09/
ROME, March 9 (Reuters) - Pope Francis has said in an interview that Ukraine should have what he called the courage of the "white flag" and negotiate an end to the war with Russia that followed Moscow's full-scale invasion two years ago and that has killed tens of thousands.
Francis made his comments in an interview recorded last month with Swiss broadcaster RSI, well before Friday's latest offer by Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan to host a summit between Ukraine and Russia to end the war.
Erdogan made the fresh offer after a meeting in Istanbul with his Ukrainian counterpart Volodymyr Zelenskiy. Zelenskiy has said while he wants peace he will not give up any territory.
The Ukrainian leader's own peace plan calls for the withdrawal of Russian troops from all of Ukraine and the restoration of its state borders. The Kremlin has ruled out engaging in peace talks on terms set by Kyiv. A spokesman for Zelenskiy did not immediately respond to a request for comment on the pope's remarks. In the interview Francis was asked for his position on a debate between those who say Ukraine should give up as it has not been able to repel Russian forces, and those who say doing so would legitimise actions by the strongest party. The interviewer used the term "white flag" in the question.
"It is one interpretation, that is true," Francis said, according to an advance transcript of the interview and a partial video made available to Reuters on Saturday. It is due to be broadcast on March 20 as part of a new cultural programme.
"But I think that the strongest one is the one who looks at the situation, thinks about the people and has the courage of the white flag, and negotiates," Francis said, adding that talks should take place with the help of international powers.
"The word negotiate is a courageous word. When you see that you are defeated, that things are not going well, you have to have the courage to negotiate," Francis said.
It was believed to be the first time Francis has used terms such as "white flag" or "defeated" in discussing the Ukraine war, although he has spoken in the past about the need for negotiations.
In a statement, Vatican spokesman Matteo Bruni said the pope had picked up on the term "white flag" spoken by the interviewer and used it "to indicate a stop to hostilities (and) a truce achieved with the courage of negotiations".
Last year the 87-year-old pope sent a peace envoy, Italian Cardinal Matteo Zuppi, to Kyiv, Moscow and Washington to sound out leaders in those countries. "One may feel shame," Francis said about negotiating, "but how many dead will it (the war) end up with? (One should) negotiate in time, find a country that can be a mediator," Francis said, mentioning Turkey among the countries that had offered.
"Do not be ashamed of negotiating, before things get worse," said Francis, who has made hundreds of appeals for what he calls "martyred Ukraine". Asked if he was willing to mediate, Francis said "I am here".
In another part of the interview, speaking of the war between Israel and Hamas, Francis said: "Negotiating is never a surrender".
Last month Zelenskiy said that 31,000 Ukrainian soldiers had been killed since the Russian invasion in February 2022 and that tens of thousands of civilians had been killed in the occupied areas of the country.
Reporting by Philip Pullella, Editing by Frances Kerry
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When the literal Pope advises you that you should stop because you're getting your ass beat so badly it's freaking people out.
When you see that you are defeated, that things are not going well, you have to have the courage to negotiate,
Pope says Ukraine is defeated. Liberals are getting the "are you a christian?" question in all of my ukraine conversations from now on.
negotiate an end to the war with Russia that followed Moscow's full-scale invasion two years ago
There's literally lame writing in video games and movies that talk like this. Protagonist from the past finds a newspaper that says something like "widespread devastation following the zombie outbreak two years ago". Are they writing this on the basis that a time traveler from the past is going to find it? I suppose I can at least give them credit for not just putting in parentheses "(the Russians started it)".
I also love how they always have to qualify it as being "full-scale" in every single article.
The full-scale, unprovoked, non-euclidian, anti-democratic, authoritarian, genocidal invasion personally ordered by Adolf 'Baby-Eater' Putler
Otherwise people would just think it was a model invasion done with toy soldiers.
They don’t have any idea what a full scale total war with Russia would actually look like. Satellites would be EMP’d, NATO airbases throughout Europe struck with hypersonic missiles, massive FAB bombing campaigns on their cities
I don't think "gender ideology must be destroyed" Francis is good. Bad people can say correct things. Amazing how quickly Hexbear throws the trans community under the bus to rehabilitate this prick just to score a cheap own against le epic atheists.
you can say that about literally anything you see on hexbear with regards to the axis of resistance.
Except the Pope isn’t part of the Axis of resistance. He also has significantly more cultural influence on the west than Ansarallah. It would be different if the Catholic Church started attacking American ships. And that still wouldn’t excuse the transphobia.
Supporting groups that actually resist western hegemony and an actual genocide is different than supporting a guy who heads the religious manifestation of western hegemony because he occasionally says gay people can be married.
The pope doesn't have any divisions but God I wish he had ship killer missiles and was divinely directed to use them
I would turn myself into that Brazilian meme dancing cardinal mouse
It's like if Epstein had a habit of sometimes saying true things
Is say it's a bit too slanderous to call the pope Epstein.
Epstein's handler in the CIA, I could see that. But the man himself? Not so much.
Shouldn't be head of a powerful globe spanning pedo ring if he doesn't want to be compared to Epstein.
then compare him to the president since it's pretty equivalent of a position, minus the military.
I enjoy good Pope/bad pope discourse because it's like peering into the alternate reality where Bernie won.
An alternative reality where we all ironically post "here's how Hillary could still win"
He's good for a pope. That's a ridiculously low bar but he could have been worse.
I just want him have Biden fly all the way to Rome so he can Excommunicate Ex Cathedra him right to his face
make sure it's pope bad next time so we can maintain balance
Flip a coin, roll a 1d20, or check what the astrological signs say for today
wow the pope is redfash tankie ruZZian kremlin maskirovka disinformat puppet confirmed, did puttler handed him that cue card personally?
I will definitely be pointing this out to my family who still consider themselves Catholic. Francis may not be a good guy, he's a pope, but some of his remarks create cracks in propaganda for liberal Catholics. Worst guy you know, etc. etc.
Does Europe's chief pedophile protector still have significant cultural sway, or do we gaslight ourselves into believing he does by following everything he says? I think it's the latter and I wish we didn't.
Really depends. In some catholic, global South countries, people really care what he thinks/says, and it's a big deal if he approves of say, the president or something. Ukraine tho? Idk, I was under the assumption the large majority of religious people there were their own flavor of orthodox anyway.
He have about zero influence. He can talk all he wants but if he tried to do something for real he would end like John Paul I.
He gets a disproportionate coverage to his influence. Even im majorly catholic countries what he says barely has any sway.
Russia is orthodox and so is most of Ukraine, although they have some eastern rite catholic stuff going on in Galicia for Habsburg reasons. Francis is not by any meaningful measure a religious leader there.
He is an international celebrity coded as a wise moral authority though and he has a vague influence on the conscience of many people, even beyond Catholicism. I don't think Francis' statements is going to have any influence on Ukraine. If his statements are going to advance the inevitable peace talks it is going to be by preparing westerners for them mentally and to give them a narrative to help them cope with their defeat.
Another article where the invasion is described as "full scale." It's weird that all these private, and independent media companies use the same kinda weird phrase.
I think it's supposed to be about Russia's framing of a 'Special Military Operation' and lack of formal declaration. But it def feels really weird and uncanny every time I hear it on the radio or whatever.
I think you're right, but it's strange that they all settled on the same way to describe it. I'm pretty sure there's not a precedent for using "full-scale" to describe an invasion in an undeclared war.
the pope is a splinter faction of the Orthodox pentarcy based in Roman imperialism therefore Rome, and probably all of the former Roman empire, should be under the rule of Putin.
This is good and just.
unironically there is a strand in catholicism rn that believes reunification of the churches is inevitable based off of some hallucination a guy had of mary in spain or something. basically said to bend over backwards for the eastern orthodox church after the soviet union falls
I guess that's cool. All I know is feel guilty and pray to Mary on Christmas Eve
Forget about reunifying all the churches, get the orthodox churches to just all be in the same room together and then maybe we can talk.
I have no idea what you mean but I hope my comment is recieved in such corrosive sarcasm as to burn away the fingers of those that side with Russian imperialism
I'm saying that you sound like a Jack Chick character doling out a multi-page screed against the Pope for committing the horrible crime of not being a White Anglo-Saxon Protestant
Though, it also rings true with the Left Behind books
All it needs is some uncomfortable stuff about middle-aged men wanting to sleep with teenagers and you've got an international bestseller on your hands
Jack Chick is a far right Christian who got famous for making a 'DnD is a gateway to outright Satanism' comic like over a decade ago. I think he makes a lot of Christian-centric comics in general.
right, ok so is the poster saying I sound like a Bible thumping nong or what?
No no no, they're saying you are a bible thumping nong. And they're right.
So if it's not abundantly clear from the utter absurdity of my comment I'm not religious
You are religious, following the Ukrainian KKKatholic regime's line about "Russian imperialism," a totally made up concept created to justify NATO imperialism.
The Ukrainian leader's own peace plan calls for the withdrawal of Russian troops from all of Ukraine and the restoration of its state borders.
The plan also includes sunshine, rainbows and that everyone gets a pony. The Ukrainian leader expects the plan to be enacted Thursday morning and estimates that it will have ended all violence and injustice in Russia and Ukraine by Friday afternoon.
I briefly saw a post about Ukraine responding to this by putting the pope on their kill list, but I think the post is gone now because I can't find it. is it true
Assuming you mean the Myrotvorets website, that appears to be a fake that made the rounds a few hours ago (apparently already occurred several months ago, too).
Russian propaganda? Lot of people on Reddit seem to remember it happening https://risu.ua/en/russian-propagandists-came-up-with-a-fake-about-the-pope-being-added-to-myrotvorets-database_n142153/amp
Side note, I hate Elliot Higgins so much https://twitter.com/EliotHiggins/status/1581290949006659584
This made the Finnish radlibs so mad today, it was amazing. These people tend to claim to be very secular, but still got big mad that the dude in the silly tall hat doesn't parrot the same takes on Ukraine they have been programmed with.
