The news from Denmark made me think back on the shit that went down in Norway 11 years ago, and holy fuck-
You had a roided up thumb failson calling himself a Knight Templar and fancying himself as a protector of white Christendom blowing up bombs near a government building in the capital to distract from his intended target, a summer camp for the youth wing of the local soc dem party held on a nearby island where he went around shooting and killing 70+ children like fish in a barrel dressed as a policeman.
Like no, he didn't attack government officials or politicians only targeting government buildings as a feint* he specifically wanted to kill children who he thought were communists
*His primary target was apparently the former leader of the dem soc party who had left the island by the time he arrived
:desolate:
I seem to remember that Breivik claimed he was part of some larger "Templar" organisation, whatever happened to that thread 👁️
Also, the whole incident was a bit awkward for every anti-Muslim cryptofash "immigration critical" politician and """"intellectual"""" in Europe as he had basically quoted every single one of them in his manifesto
The people he killed were the youth wing of the left political party. He essentially wiped out a generation of people who would have been young political leaders now.
This even taught me the left should always remain armed and vigilant
All of his 4chan imitators basically just picked a place of worship or other public space they knew would be full of the specific minority they were fixated on
He also cited combating cultural marxism as a motive behind the murders. At the time it was a fringe neo-nazi conspiracy theory. It's unbelievable how mild the reactions were to people trying to bring it into the semi-mainstream just a few years afterwards
The attack and the manifesto contained every trope online chuds would go on to endlessly parrot in the next 10 years, just without the fucking shit-eating chan meme irony you saw with the Christchurch shooter because the subculture hadn't really come around yet
It’s unbelievable how mild the reactions were to people trying to bring it into the semi-mainstream just a few years afterwards
Nobody read his manifesto in europe. It was downplayed, as was he, for fear of producing copycats.
I am against that now. The contents of the manifestos of these people are essential for the wider public to understand just how unhinged and dangerous the situation is with these groups and the spaces producing them. Without that knowledge there is no pushback.
I've said this before but: none of these shootings have stopped. If the whole goal of not publishing the manifestos or diving into these people was to prevent copycats it has failed wholesale. It is time to pin this rotten badge to the right wingers responsible. At this point all its doing is disempowering the rest of us from knowing the full extent to which our enemies believe.
One of the people Breivik quoted in his manifesto, Jussi Halla-aho, went on to become the leader of the Finns Party
I think the logic was treating them like serial killers originally. The problem is that they're not that.
Put on the internet is pretty different to the media actually talking about them, their contents, and what the big problem with them is. Barely any major source writes about them and it's not on tv more than a hot minute.
If I remember right, the New Zealand mass shooter cited Brievik and Dylann Roof as influences :agony-deep:
The Christchurch attack was probably the closest to what Breivik did, with it being a smaller country with mostly a sleepy safe reputation along with the absurd body count. It still felt different since it was post /pol/ and completely drenched in the 4chan meme aesthetic.
He also differs from Breivik by having directly targeted a minority instead of the more unusual curveball choice of a left-wing political party's youth wing (many of whom belonged to different minorities, but the attack wasn't just racist in nature)
don't know what you mean by "attack wasn't just racist in nature", it was entirely racists because it is based on Replacement Theory.
the French guy who is responsible for Replacement theory is still alive
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renaud_Camus
why isn't he targeted for a drone strike, he's responsible for several terrorist mass shootings. I know why...
:us-foreign-policy:
It was definitely racist but it also had a slightly more complicated political element to it on top of just wanting to kill black people/Muslims/Jews
The American equivalent would be one of these chuds shooting up a Democratic Party event
I think the death penalty is bad but if anyone in the world deserves it, breivik is at the top of the list. I believe >50% of even murderers can potentially be rehabilitated, but this guy? The world would be a better place if he was dead. The fact that he is still alive is an injustice.
C'mon, everyone deserves a chance at life. You're telling me that we SHOULDN'T let him free if he can survive one month of complete isolation in a 4x3 metal cube in the Sonoran Desert? Let's give it a chance, have a heart
You’re telling me that we SHOULDN’T let him free
:geordi-no:
one month of complete isolation in a 4x3 metal cube in the Sonoran Desert
:geordi-yes:
I don't know how much detail they went into on this one in the US. I didn't really realize how wild it was til I saw a documentary on it a few months ago. dude bombed downtown as a decoy and then hunted children down on an island.
And somehow assumed it would spark some kind of white Christian revolt against the islamo-marxist cabal
most fascists are pretty comfortable so they have no interest in putting that comfortability in jeopardy
Which is why so far all of these attacks have been done by alienated -in many cases very young- saddos and not guys with jobs and families. Even in America where well-to-do fascist assholes are emboldened enough to gather in large numbers to LARP in public wearing expensive tacticool gear and where they enjoy full collusion from law enforcement they never do anything that would land them in trouble
I remember watching the news that evening, I wasn't even a teenager yet. At the time it just didn't faze me too hard, but now I understand the greatness of the tragedy. Honestly, I'm just glad he's locked up now. And he's going to be in there for more than 20 years, most definitely going to get an extended sentence of at least a decade after that.
Like no, he didn’t attack government officials or politicians
if i remember correctly his primary target was the former prime minister of the demsoc party, gro harlem brundtland, but she had left the island an hour before breivik arrived
Oh yeah, I forgot that detail! So it was intended as an even more explicitly political attack. Am I correct in that they weren't even in power at the time?
This happened under Jens Stoltenberg's second government which lasted to 2013, which was a coalition of Ap, SV and Sp. So they were in power, and lost power the next election.
Breivik was regarded as a hero by Israeli media and much of the public btw. Also I didn't hear of this until around late 2014 (a year after leaving the US). There was also a pro-Palestinian rally on the island a day before.
And since it's the 4th of July,
Death to america uwu
:amerikkka: :PIGPOOPBALLS:
Some 22-year-old shot up a mall, killing a bunch of people. Looks like it might've been a racist attack
there was just another shooting in Oslo too, wasn't there? are the Nordics doing ok?
That one is apparently being treated as "Islamic Terrorism" by Norwegian cops
It was apparently some mentally ill 42-year-old who hated gay people
Very cool
yeah that's nuts, tragic.
also, guess who's of Iranian ethnicity trying to move to Norway? I'm sure that's gonna be fun lol
Just say you're Italian :AyyyyyOC:
In all honesty, if it's another Western country you're moving from it'll most likely be ok
No doubt there are scarily strong fashy elements over there and in Europe in general. But from my experience with Norway, among many non-fashy people, the solidarity for immigrants is quite strong. There's a good amount of organizations and non profits who do a lot of outreach and integration work. I'm definitely biased since my high school classmate runs one and does genuinely good work for them, teaches people to forage mushrooms and not die of poisoning, bussing people around to beautiful natural spots, etc. It sounds like you're not coming straight from Iran so you don't exactly need these services lol, but that's my general image of Norwegians. (Also good English will obviously take you from 'immigrant' to 'expat' status, so you'll face a different thing entirely)
I feel like integration is probably a dirty word on here, certainly used to be for me given its prominence as a right wing talking point. But there's actually so much immigrants & refugees need to learn about surviving & staying happy & healthy in the physical hellhole that is the north.
Honestly it's kind of in poor taste to be defensive of a country at a time like this but whatever. Just saying I really hope you find the good less-racist Norwegians! It's a fucking beautiful country I swear!
that's cool to hear. and yeah I was born in Iran but have lived in the US practically all my life, so I'll probably just be seen as an American. it's not like I ever really 'fit in' in this country either, being in grade school after the 9/11 years was absolutely miserable. even these days, I get weird comments and stuff.
are you from there yourself? I'm desperately trying to do well enough in school so I can get into a master's program there, seems like a nice place to live.
Fuck these people dude, goddamn. The irony of being Amerikkkan and associating war and destruction with an Iranian person is thick.
And yeah I'm from there. Once you get residency it's a fucking lifechanger. Watched it happen to an American friend. People like to shit on socdems, but damn if they didn't build a nice little welfare state for themselves over here. Turns you right into a socdem apologist (tankies will say that's the point!!)
I cannot wait to get out of this shit hole, that might end up being the happiest day of my life lol. the plan right now is to finish my bachelor's, apply for master's programs there, and try to stay afterwards. I'm doing a CS degree, so that gives me a pretty good shot I think.
People like to shit on socdems, but damn if they didn’t build a nice little welfare state for themselves over here. Turns you right into a socdem apologist (tankies will say that’s the point!!)
I've never thought about that, but it must be difficult to radicalize people to our side when everyone's mostly comfortable. is there much of a left movement there? I know Rødt did pretty well in the last elections
Actually this is kind of my primary intellectual dilemma recently. I've kinda strayed from the anti-socdem sentiment you see online a lot, especially on here.
I no longer fully buy that social democracy is as simple as a pro-capitalist concession to socialists. It IS a concession, but it was still won from militant socialist worker organizing. That's how anyone gets anything. Vietnam got national liberation and an experiment in communism, Norway and almost every European country got some form of welfare state.
As for the comfort thing you mention - the slow privatization of the welfare state has definitely been met with some radicalization. I wouldn't be super optimistic or anything, I think it's a similar situation as the US, just that these countries started the situation with a welfare state that the population is fiercely defensive of compared to anything you can be defensive of in the US. Honestly you can take the US or UK political situation and with some minor alterations more or less understand every western country's political situation:
Left lost power continuously since the 70s/80s,
Capitalist end of history sets in,
2008-and onwards shows some ugly side of capitalism and radicalizes people,
2020 and COVID happens and radicalization goes up even more.
...all meanwhile racial fascist elements have grown twice as fast.
I didn't really know a lot about it until like 5 years ago when i watched those Zizek movies and he mentioned it at the end of one of them. Then I looked more in to it, and yeah, it was horrific. He's a complete psycho
