On r/collapse and pissed of another rambling neoliberal ghoul by saying China cares more about it's people since it has a higher rate of home ownership among the youth and that they focus on avoiding the traps of American market speculation. In response I got this babbling paragraph of nothing burgers lmao.

"Do you have even a tiny clue as to how housing works in that market? Do you understand that the average apartment price per square foot in major cities can be over a thousand USD? Or $5-600 a square foot in Third Tier cities. Or that average income to mortgage ratios are over 100% in most cities in the country, and exceed 400% in tier one cities? Do you understand that there are many, many ghost cities containing fake housing for hundreds of thousands of occupants, in building where apartments sell for $300K USD and up? These building are often just empty shells that can never be occupied, since they don't have elevators or even stair towers. Do you understand that it's not unusual to have the government issue demolition orders for new construction mid-rise towers, as they are built so astoundingly poorly that they are in danger of collapsing, and some actually do collapse? Do you have a clue that the average urban professional clears $1100 USD/month and can't buy a place to live, under $4-500K USD within several hours of commute time to their job? Do you understand that the entire Chinese residential market is a fucking scam, that there are 65 MILLION unoccupied units, frequently purchased by extended families that have pooled every fucking dime that several generations have, to pay a down payment on an apartment, hours away? An "investment" that will never have any real value, and never be the safe haven for their money they were led to believe it is? Do you understand that the last six months have been a downward spiral in the residential market, with hundreds of billions of dollars lost, sales falling off a cliff and "values" declining at 10% year over year.

No, reality is, you don't have a tiny clue about any of this. Educate yourself and stop believing the propaganda, no matter who is pushing the lies and what country they are shilling for."

  • summerbl1nd [none/use name]
    ·
    2 years ago

    1. he's right about the stupid real estate speculation

    2. ghost cities are not ghost cities anymore

    3. the demolition of buildings under construction is usually used in the context of faking gdp growth, not structural instability

    4. build construction quality has gone up in recent years, 90s and 00s were the heydays of shittiness

    5. you do get less bang for your buck (poor interior quality, less usable floor space) despite 4 (because of speculation)

    6. that being said, there have been collapses of finished buildings with occupants inside, and peoples heads have rolled for it. remind me who got the axe for grenfell again?

    7. people buy houses for speculation yes, but most people actually buy because they need a house to get married and, yknow, live in

    8. superstructure also drives base: there is a culture of women requiring men to have bought a house/car before getting married as a sign of financial potential, which adds to the speculation

    9. the downward spiral is a controlled detonation by the central government (because provincial governments are too compromised) that has been cheered on by those who were previously unable to buy a house

    10. rent is so much fucking cheaper in china than in the states

    • Bloobish [comrade/them]
      ·
      2 years ago

      Thanks for this, was looking for a good means to address and also whether or not the points were true or just crazed US fake stats

    • sooper_dooper_roofer [none/use name]
      ·
      2 years ago
      1. Chinese houses are mostly paid for. Mayos are malding because they want a 2008-style housing collapse, but the numbers show this is simply impossible. The WORST thing that can happen even if a Chinese housing crash occurs, is that people's house values go down.

      These pube-bearded bazinga brains honestly believe that people are going to riot even though they own a home and are well-fed, simply because the home went down in value. "Hey I have a job and food but my 800k ranch is now worth 500k, gonna riot brb"

      Whereas the 2008 US analog would be "Hey I just LOST my job and am struggling to afford food, and my 800k ranch is also worth half of what it used to be"

      This is because in 2008 bankers autosold their other stocks to take care of the margin (margin = money the bank lends to an investor in order to buy stocks).

      The reason this happened is because the HOUSE loans were given to like, actual homeless people, and then the interest payments from these jobless people inevitably dried up (wow so unexpected) and we had a collective westoid :shocked-pikachu:

      Instead of having a guarantee of some guy who just started his McD's job of paying back $500k, China has people who...already paid $500k and bought the house.