idk if this was in reference to my comment yesterday where i used the phrase, but i don't at all want to discount good stuff china is doing, i'm sure there's a lot of it. i just meant that especially on genzedong some people seem to insist that everything about china is good and nothing is bad, which seems unlikely to me. its definitely not nearly as bad on here as on some places. Support is good but surely it should be critical support.
in this case though this just seems good. thanks xi.
GenZedong is a lot more dogmatic about China than we are here. I enjoy seeing good faith critiques with the understanding that China is a net good. I think that, internally, all support ought to be critical. Even amongst friends I’m working to radicalize, I find conceding things up front while talking one on one helps them realize I’m not just some zealot who hasn’t thought things through. But when it comes to performing for libs online, uncritical support for all AES projects. I refuse to do their capitalist apologia work for them.
ya i dont talk to libs about that sort of stuff at all. i guess it makes sense to do it that way on reddit. i hadn't really considered that angle, so thanks.
i feel like since leftist criticisms of china are probably almost entirely different from liberal ones it doesnt necessarily have to serve as doing capitalist propaganda for them. maybe it can help redirect the conversation away from bullshit like xinjiang whatever? idk, probably not. i'm not interested in arguing with liberals about china or whatever online so i don't know what the strategems are.
In my experience it’s hard to even discuss leftist critiques of China with a liberal. Like I can talk about how their housing market is stagnating and a liberal will hear “China’s market manipulation has failed” instead of the actual (admittedly mild) critique about enabling excessive financialization. I believe there’s even been progress on that front that I haven’t kept up on. But you get my point. If someone’s not already anticapitalist, framing it in a way that makes sense to them is hard
checks out. people really don't have an easy time accepting new ideas especially ones that go against such ingrained beliefs from propaganda etc. hits bong you just need to open your mind bro (me when a liberal propagates propaganda) (kind of unironically)
do you know what a good place is to learn abt modern china or just keep up with it newswise? i'm not like extremely confident in state media but i guess its surely better than like NYT or fuckin whatever
Something a friend insists works wonders is saying, “I know it’s a lot to ask you to realign your whole world view, but…” Specifically with longer term relationships where you see each other often
lol I did this thing I hate when other people do, yeah I guess I was thinking about that phrase because it was fresh in my mind but not about you specifically.
But yeah there are a lot of things happening in China to celebrate, and relative to the other worlds "super powers" I think focusing on the negatives in China is disingenuous, particularly when sitting in the "imperial core" while doing it. I also think it's important as leftists to defend the progress of China when faced with an endless barrage of anti-China propaganda. So, yeah cheerleading for China is a good thing, when the cheerleading is informed and grounded.
There are levels of critical support, it can't be used as a blanket position, and I believe China is overwhelmingly a force of good, with the "critical" part of my support a sidenote vs a main feature. Ironically one of my main criticisms is they are not offering enough support to AES projects throughout the world, "spreading communism" as it were.
ya i think the first world point is a good one, i feel like people in china do plenty to productively criticize the cpc in a more informed way than most of us could do. to be clear i don't personally have specific criticisms of china or their government or whatever, i don't know anything about it. but that's why i don't want to be exposed to only hardline total support from somewhere like genzedong cause i doubt that's the whole picture. but genzedong is there to annoy people on reddit and that's good, it's not there to inform me specifically lol.
if anything yeah i think the relative isolationism seems non-ideal to me but like, i wouldn't be surprised if there were strong reasons for it that i just don't understand cause obviously i'm not a chinese government official.
i think sports teams should have cheerleaders that like, hurl abuse at the players and just talk shit about them and how bad they are. that could be funny.
Critical support is the party line, there's no one more critical of central planning than the central planners themselves.
What's important is the reaction to and handling of crises and not the crises themselves. If a ruling ideology reacts to a crisis by supporting the interests of the working class over capital, it's net good. If it uses the crises to diminish worker power and institute reforms beneficial to capital then it's net negative. The starting point is just a tiny portion of the whole image.
And I routinely see users here seething about "cheerleading" for China. Okay I'm not going to do a backflip but I'll shake a pom pom.
idk if this was in reference to my comment yesterday where i used the phrase, but i don't at all want to discount good stuff china is doing, i'm sure there's a lot of it. i just meant that especially on genzedong some people seem to insist that everything about china is good and nothing is bad, which seems unlikely to me. its definitely not nearly as bad on here as on some places. Support is good but surely it should be critical support.
in this case though this just seems good. thanks xi.
GenZedong is a lot more dogmatic about China than we are here. I enjoy seeing good faith critiques with the understanding that China is a net good. I think that, internally, all support ought to be critical. Even amongst friends I’m working to radicalize, I find conceding things up front while talking one on one helps them realize I’m not just some zealot who hasn’t thought things through. But when it comes to performing for libs online, uncritical support for all AES projects. I refuse to do their capitalist apologia work for them.
ya i dont talk to libs about that sort of stuff at all. i guess it makes sense to do it that way on reddit. i hadn't really considered that angle, so thanks.
i feel like since leftist criticisms of china are probably almost entirely different from liberal ones it doesnt necessarily have to serve as doing capitalist propaganda for them. maybe it can help redirect the conversation away from bullshit like xinjiang whatever? idk, probably not. i'm not interested in arguing with liberals about china or whatever online so i don't know what the strategems are.
In my experience it’s hard to even discuss leftist critiques of China with a liberal. Like I can talk about how their housing market is stagnating and a liberal will hear “China’s market manipulation has failed” instead of the actual (admittedly mild) critique about enabling excessive financialization. I believe there’s even been progress on that front that I haven’t kept up on. But you get my point. If someone’s not already anticapitalist, framing it in a way that makes sense to them is hard
checks out. people really don't have an easy time accepting new ideas especially ones that go against such ingrained beliefs from propaganda etc. hits bong you just need to open your mind bro (me when a liberal propagates propaganda) (kind of unironically)
do you know what a good place is to learn abt modern china or just keep up with it newswise? i'm not like extremely confident in state media but i guess its surely better than like NYT or fuckin whatever
Something a friend insists works wonders is saying, “I know it’s a lot to ask you to realign your whole world view, but…” Specifically with longer term relationships where you see each other often
lol I did this thing I hate when other people do, yeah I guess I was thinking about that phrase because it was fresh in my mind but not about you specifically.
But yeah there are a lot of things happening in China to celebrate, and relative to the other worlds "super powers" I think focusing on the negatives in China is disingenuous, particularly when sitting in the "imperial core" while doing it. I also think it's important as leftists to defend the progress of China when faced with an endless barrage of anti-China propaganda. So, yeah cheerleading for China is a good thing, when the cheerleading is informed and grounded.
There are levels of critical support, it can't be used as a blanket position, and I believe China is overwhelmingly a force of good, with the "critical" part of my support a sidenote vs a main feature. Ironically one of my main criticisms is they are not offering enough support to AES projects throughout the world, "spreading communism" as it were.
ya i think the first world point is a good one, i feel like people in china do plenty to productively criticize the cpc in a more informed way than most of us could do. to be clear i don't personally have specific criticisms of china or their government or whatever, i don't know anything about it. but that's why i don't want to be exposed to only hardline total support from somewhere like genzedong cause i doubt that's the whole picture. but genzedong is there to annoy people on reddit and that's good, it's not there to inform me specifically lol.
if anything yeah i think the relative isolationism seems non-ideal to me but like, i wouldn't be surprised if there were strong reasons for it that i just don't understand cause obviously i'm not a chinese government official.
i think sports teams should have cheerleaders that like, hurl abuse at the players and just talk shit about them and how bad they are. that could be funny.
Critical support is the party line, there's no one more critical of central planning than the central planners themselves.
What's important is the reaction to and handling of crises and not the crises themselves. If a ruling ideology reacts to a crisis by supporting the interests of the working class over capital, it's net good. If it uses the crises to diminish worker power and institute reforms beneficial to capital then it's net negative. The starting point is just a tiny portion of the whole image.
LET'S GO CHINA!