leftypol

:meow-knit:

in relation to Romani and Travellers

:ohnoes:

Well yeah, it's as bad as i'd have expected. they've made just an all-around awful take that's actively dehumanizing and criminalizing to Romani and other travelling peoples. I don't see how socialism would be incompatible with people living on the road and working as artisans or in various trades that are traditionally part of the Romani way of live, not to mention that a very large number of Romani and Sintizze already live sedentary lives indistinguishable from those of anybody around them.

Anti-ziganists go straight to the :gulag: like all other reactionaries.

One of the posters on here was Romani (omitting their username for OPSEC) and used to post up lots of good info on traveling communities to counter bad takes. The general gist of what they had said once in regard to traveling societies and socialism is that it needs to be properly established within the communities themselves by including them in any planning, rather than just forcing change, travelling workers can be a boon to a society moving around to fill in gaps where needed if effective planning is used.

Europeans are in no sense generally anti-racist. That's just something Americans (and also European supremacists) tell themselves for some reason. Germany didn't even legally recognize that it committed genocide against Romani and Sinti until the 80s and never paid reparations. There's centuries of violent and still ongoing discrimination here; ignoring that and instead suggesting a policy of cultural genocide is way off the mark, to say the least.

Most Europeans that I heard are in general pretty anti-racist

Ask them about refugees and immigration in general and see just how "anti-racist" Europeans are lol

It sounds like these absolute shit takes were from people who know nothing about Romani people, probably never spoken someone from the culture before, and based entirely on reactionary comments they've seen online

Maybe if they were uniformly offered food, shelter, and other rights unconditionally, they'd be a little more interested in being more integrated into whatever communities they find themselves in. Y'know, as opposed to the millennia of fucking genocide and oppression that the Roma have actually known. We're not talking about that many people after all. Kind of seems to me like they deserve to be treated with compassion and not residential schools.

deleted by creator

I’ve seen someone on there saying that the only way to properly “integrate” (I have serious problems with that term, but I digress) these groups would be to have social services take their children into care to have them grow up as productive members of society

lmao what fucking weirdo fascists

we're so far past the point that we need to be worrying about people not being "productive members of society." Maybe back in the 1910s it was important to make sure everyone is contributing because they needed to industrialize in order to meet everyone's needs and avoid famines and stuff, but we're beyond that now. we produce way too much food, we just don't distribute it properly. we have way too many houses, we just don't house people in them. we have plenty of clothes, we just don't give them to those who need them.

if you want to literally lie on your living room floor all day every day and that's what makes you happy, feel fucking free. we've advanced as a species beyond the need for everyone to be productive.

Romanis have the same problem as every ethnic group that has been economically discriminated against for generations. When put in a position where making an honest living isn't possible, people do crime. The stereotype gets reinforced through a repeating cycle of discrimination, poverty, and crime. How to break the cycle is another question

deleted by creator

That's not how the lumpenproletariat works is all I feel capable of adding to this.

Rhetorical question time. What is the "Romani/Traveller way of life?"

Is it something that is intrinsic to themselves as a people or is it what they were forced into by the societies that they exist within being shitty and needing somebody to demonize?

Problem is a lot of the migratory and dirt poor Roma have refused assistance on either front which only reinforces the view that its impossible to coexist with them.

In the USA, unless you're one of the rich, any assistance has so many strings attached and threats of punishment if the wrong "t" is crossed or if your address changes or if you make 1 penny more than the arbitrary income/wealth/savings chart says is okay or if somebody decides that you're abusing your kids because they have dirty fingernails or something... that its often not worth the effort (or the actual physical danger) to try to apply for these programs. There's no way this isn't the same way most of these programs are set up in other westernized countries.

deleted by creator

Fucking nazi talking points. “Just asking questions”. Banned.

:pit: :stalin-gun-1::stalin-gun-2:

no.

Weren’t there some models in Kazakhstan and Mongolia of integrating a nomadic herding economy into socialism? Not the same nomadic culture, but an example