My point is that although life is pain now, it's comparatively easier to extract fossil fuel from shallow reservoirs than deep ones. The next intelligent species might therefore never develop labor saving technology.
No need to yell at me, I know what it feels like to be hopeless and in pain and I would prefer that noone has to go through that, but I also know that it doesn't last forever, and there will always be things and people that bring joy and beauty, and those things make life worth living. In my opinion at least.
no, you can't know that for other people. you don't know the future like that. the hedonic treadmill doesn't mean conditions changed. getting numbed to torture doesn't stop the torture.
I feel pretty confident in saying that most people, past, present or future, have some reason to want to exist, justified or not. That doesn't mean existence is all good and cool.
I just don't understand why your position is what it is, and probably won't without some longer conversation about the specific pains you're going through. I just think it's a selfish, nihilistic position to take, and I don't think you're going to keep thinking this way. I held many of the same views earlier in life but no longer do, and so my viewpoint is colored by that.
I feel pretty confident in saying that most people, past, present or future, have some reason to want to exist, justified or not. That doesn’t mean existence is all good and cool.
we (usually) want to keep living. there would be nobody to care if we weren't born.
I just think it’s a selfish, nihilistic position to take, and I don’t think you’re going to keep thinking this way. I held many of the same views earlier in life but no longer do, and so my viewpoint is colored by that.
suffering is bad
we should minimize suffering
it's immoral to inflict suffering on someone or create conditions that make their suffering inevitable
every person who lives suffers
we don't choose to be conceived or born
creating new people is coercive
it's immoral to create new people because those people will inevitably suffer.
I really don't think you can reason me out of these.
selfish
no, the selfish thing is to have kids when you have a choice not to.
Other people have gone through worse than I have, but what has been done to me is bad enough that jeff bezos giving me all his money tomorrow wouldn't make it OK, and i could live the rest of my life in hedonistic excess and it still wouldn't be worth it.
My point is that although life is pain now, it's comparatively easier to extract fossil fuel from shallow reservoirs than deep ones. The next intelligent species might therefore never develop labor saving technology.
No need to yell at me, I know what it feels like to be hopeless and in pain and I would prefer that noone has to go through that, but I also know that it doesn't last forever, and there will always be things and people that bring joy and beauty, and those things make life worth living. In my opinion at least.
no, you can't know that for other people. you don't know the future like that. the hedonic treadmill doesn't mean conditions changed. getting numbed to torture doesn't stop the torture.
I feel pretty confident in saying that most people, past, present or future, have some reason to want to exist, justified or not. That doesn't mean existence is all good and cool.
I just don't understand why your position is what it is, and probably won't without some longer conversation about the specific pains you're going through. I just think it's a selfish, nihilistic position to take, and I don't think you're going to keep thinking this way. I held many of the same views earlier in life but no longer do, and so my viewpoint is colored by that.
we (usually) want to keep living. there would be nobody to care if we weren't born.
suffering is bad
we should minimize suffering
it's immoral to inflict suffering on someone or create conditions that make their suffering inevitable
every person who lives suffers
we don't choose to be conceived or born
creating new people is coercive
it's immoral to create new people because those people will inevitably suffer.
I really don't think you can reason me out of these.
no, the selfish thing is to have kids when you have a choice not to.
Other people have gone through worse than I have, but what has been done to me is bad enough that jeff bezos giving me all his money tomorrow wouldn't make it OK, and i could live the rest of my life in hedonistic excess and it still wouldn't be worth it.