Like carve out a place between Russia, Belarus and Ukraine in the former Pale of Settlement. Establish a bunch of Yiddish language schools there. Have it become a center of Jewish culture. Sure, there are already Ukrainians, Russians and Belorussians there but there were already people in the far east too.

  • LeninsBeard [he/him]
    ·
    2 years ago

    I think that the underlying assumptions of Zionism are the same as the underlying assumptions of Nazism with a slightly different bent: Nazism sees Judaism as an immutable characteristic that corrupts a human being, while Zionism sees anti-semitism the same way. Both of them believe that Jewish people and anti-semites are ontologically incapable of coexisting.

    • sooper_dooper_roofer [none/use name]
      ·
      2 years ago

      Zionism is just greedy settlerism mixed with that word I forgot which means "conquering back lost land"

      1. It's apparently not enough that Jewish people get land for their own ethnostate (I agree with this for the record), but for some reason it HAS to be explicitly the land in Israel and nowhere else

      2. Even if you accept this premise and view the Arab Muslims as oppressors who shouldn't be there, neither should the Ashkenazi Jews. In fact even the Muslims would be closer to the original inhabitants, with the ladder of priority going something like Mizrahi Jews > Palestinians > Ashkenazi Jews

      • LeninsBeard [he/him]
        ·
        2 years ago

        Yeah definitely, and honestly I wouldn't even go as far as trying to do an analysis of who "really" should own the land (not that you're trying to do that, I know it's just to make a point). I think as leftists we should really be focused more on who is currently being oppressed rather than trying to figure out who is technically allowed to claim the land.

        Like, I don't support land back because native peoples technically own the land via treaties, I support land back because there are currently native peoples who are being oppressed and fighting to have those treaties recognized. Same can be said for Palestine.

    • LeninWeave [none/use name]
      ·
      2 years ago

      while Zionism sees anti-semitism the same way

      That's being incredibly generous to Zionism.

      • LeninsBeard [he/him]
        ·
        2 years ago

        While of course there's more to it that that including a colonial mindset and straight racism, I think it's fair to say it was a large part of the desire for a Jewish state. At the very least it was a driving factor for Theodore Herzl, the father of modern Zionism.

        Comparing antisemitism to natural disasters such as floods and saying that the only way to combat it is through fighting (presumably to create a "homeland"):

        In Paris, then, I gained a freer attitude toward anti-Semitism which I now began to understand historically and make allowances for.

        Above all, I recognized the emptiness and futility of efforts to “combat anti-Semitism.” Declamations made in writing or in closed circles do no good whatever; they even have a comical effect. It is true that in addition to careerists and simpletons there may be very stalwart people serving on such “relief committees.” These resemble the “relief committees” formed after—and before!—floods, and they accomplish about as much. The noble Bertha von Suttner is in error—an error, to be sure, which does her great honor—when she believes that such a committee can be of help. Exactly the case of the peace societies. A man who invents a terrible explosive does more for peace than a thousand gentle apostles.

        Saying that the "Jewish Question" will exist due to innate characteristics of Jewish people:

        The Jewish question exists wherever the Jews live, however small their number. Where it does not exist it is imported by Jew immigrants. We naturally go where we are not persecuted, and, still persecution is the result of our appearance...By persecution we cannot be exterminated...the strong Jews turn proudly to their race when persecution bursts out. Entire branches of Judaism may disappear, break away; the tree lives.

        And just for good measure, Jews as a sort of Ubermensch who would enlighten the entire world:

        The Jews who will it shall achieve their State. We shall live at last as free men on our own soil, and in our own homes peacefully die. The world will be liberated by our freedom, enriched by our wealth, magnified by our greatness. And whatever we attempt there for our own benefit will redound mightily and beneficially to the good of all mankind.

        So while I would say it's being reductive to say that the belief in antisemitism as an immutable characteristic was the driving force behind Zionism, I don't think it's necessarily being generous.

        • Vncredleader [he/him]
          ·
          2 years ago

          Finkelstein talks about this a lot, the zionist idea of the uniqueness of the Jew and that genocide against them is an innate characteristic of the gentile