IDK whats up with the wrecker, but your point about not recognizing leftism unless its inclusive and intersectional is spot on. If you're gonna fight for 'leftism' at the exclusion of others, fuck off, not interested. I make jokes about people getting the wall, but at the end of the day, leftism is love.
based post. nazbols/patsocs have been infesting leftist spaces and expressing their reactionary, class reductionist ideas and pretending to be MLs (as well as attacking leftists who don’t think that communists should be patriotic to countries in the imperial core)
anti-nazbol-aktion :amerikkka:
lmao this person got banned really quickly. another w for mods
Not sure if they're quite nazbols, bur there's a certain type of reactionary socialist I find truly bizarre. Like I saw people getting really mad at western leftists for "supporting" furries (meaning literally not getting mad about them). Like I just can't find myself caring about furries, I mean i care for them in the sense that I think they shouldn't be harmed and their needs should be provided for, but beyond that why even think about furries at all? Who care, just let people be man.
Furries are a bit strange, but you know what? None of them have ever done harm to me personally, and they are one of the few groups of people who don't seem to disappear the closer you get to radical shit. You can either be a conformist, or embrace being a weirdo.
making shitlibs mad as hell
says the one who's ban evading :gulag:
Good post :rosa-salute:
That wrecker is really weird. I initially missed their freakout but every now and they randomly send me comments with their social Darwinist rants completely out of nowhere. Like bro why are you talking to me? Lol.
It blows my mind that nazi pseudoscience is still so common. It's been disproven so many times.
"Strength" is subjective and is mostly dependant on the situation.
Being introverted is seen as a weakness by these people but introverts dealt with covid lockdowns a lot better, as an example. So really what can we really solidly say is strong or weak?
organize or die
This is especially funny to me because these people are really bad at irl organizing. They actually dont exist in organizations. If there is ever any sort of violent revolution in the US they will either have to stfu or get got, either by the chuds or by us. People who are actually "strong" don't need to spend all day online projecting their "strength". Nazbols despise any org doing any actual work because irl orgs are typically trying to center and elevate marginalized voices, and they see that as weakness. The funny thing is that every org I've been involved in, even the DSA, has had its share of absolute brawlers who are ready to go to the mattresses with anyone and would wipe the floor with the Haz and Maupin types.
first time i heard of nazbols was on leftypol and i thought it was fairly transparent that they were just nazis coming over trying to push leftists towards accepting of racism
It’s even funnier because they hate the term “nazbol” and change to a new name every few months as people figure out their shit with the old names.
Remind you of anyone? :nazi-punching:
I wouldn't call you a marxist-leninist either.
Signed, a Marxist-Leninist Cadre.
go join a party and realize you're not cut out to be a communist.
lmao if you were in the same party as me, we'd actually know each other. Come on loser, go join a party and learn why complaining about "western hedonism" isn't organizing.
Because you'd be in blatant violation of the party constitution and face expulsion for dividing the working class and doing the work of the Right for them for free.
You gotta face it, you're a poser and an ultra-right shitlib that's one bad day away from turning into a beefsteak
A lot of the communist party members I've talked to from China actually find our stance of anti-imperialism quite acceptable.
Uh huh, maybe if you were actually a part of a party you'd actually talk to other communist parties and learn their stances.
> walking into this thread hours after the mods> :what-the-hell:hello there, welcome to the end of this thread. Help yourself to some fresh-baked bread and some crab apple jam I just made.
ah all your jumping scattered crumbs of bread everywhere now the hogs are gonna go wild for fresh slop!
If you smother enough jam on the toast, you no longer have to worry about crumbs falling off.
Agreed but i cant help but think that in 98% of countries in the world , including america, you wouldnt be able to find enough irl ideological nazbols to fill a moderately large tennis stadium so despite it being annoying to stumble upon some edgy Nazbol take online i cant worry too much
i agree and of course i (and every org) worries and should worry about wreckers at large but since we are still light years away from Nazbols being a non minascule % of competent wreckers in irl organizing i still cant help but not give them any particular focus or thoughts
It's pretty shitty to vague post about this when HumanBehaviorByBjork has apologized in these original thread for being overly aggressive. You recognize that these accounts are wreckers but one of the main things that wreckers want to do is turn members of the site against each other. If it is him then fuck him, whatever. But you very quickly latched onto the idea that it was and it's just as possible the wrecker is playing into that.
I'm not a nazbol so i don't really think this has anything to do with me. i do know that ulysses and some other users have been experiencing harassment from someone who keeps making new accounts to troll. they started by doing obscene parodies of the worst possible misinterpretations of a post i made but seem to have moved on to crude homophobia.
any organizing attempt that excludes “the mentally ill” as the aforementioned nazbol put it, or LGBTQIA+ people
Uhhhh this would exclude the core organizers for literally every org chapter and affinity groups I’ve ever been a part of. I take it these people haven’t done a whole lot of work on the ground
im against fedjacketing a lot bc sometimes ppl are just stupid, but im convinced haz has some connections to some alphabet agency. his messaging is so obviously misleading-- using ML word salads and claiming to be anti-capitalist, anti-west, and pro-AES all the while pushing reactionary lines of thought that harm the revolutionary cause at home. the way he does it is so effective its hard to believe he is just a misled idiot, he has to be doing this for nefarious purposes (fed or right opportunist). he literally only attracts confused anti-capitalists and then turns them into even more confused reactionaries.
i only know this bc i checked out his stream to see what the deal was and watched on a few occasions for abt an hour just out of morbid curiosity. i think its actually helpful to understand these peoples rhetoric to better combat it irl
combatting them p much boils down to: you cant exclude the most marginalized groups bc they are the most revolutionary groups. if you have a "socialist" group thats just a bunch of cishet yt dudes, they wont get much done bc they will tend to uphold institutions that benefit them. any reactionary beliefs must be unacceptable in a socialist org. anyone who argues that inclusivity and fighting reactionary tendencies alienates people aren't recruiting for socialism, they are recruiting for fascism, no matter how they dress it up with "leftist" rhetoric
also that wrecker in this thread is a perfect example of the brainrot caused by consuming Pazi media. "LGBT is Malthusian" as if people being gay or trans is bc of their INDIVIDUAL anti-natalism or whatever. it really illuminates how their ideology is infected by liberal ideals like individualism, absent of materialist investigation. instead of recognizing that LGBT struggles are co-opted by capitalists to cast a wider profit-seeking net, they conflate LGBT struggles with capitalist pink-washing. wrecker even said "Mao.. supported rightists" just bc he met with nixon. absolutely brainwormed, confused ideology
very funny phrase. its anti-malthusianism (which is good, malthusianism is often just eugenics) but mixed with the classic reactionary take that gay people are causing birth rates to fall. instead of the more reasonable conclusion that birth rates are determined by material condition. over the past 200 years birth rates have fallen bc less children die. however, birth rates are falling even further due to rising income inequality, as less people are able to support children. new deal policies enabled more people to support children, and when those policies were enacted the birth rates went back up to support a stable population growth. now the west is facing similar problems as it did in the pre/early depression era and we are seeing birth rates declining in a rate that is causing population decline
It’s been a right wing talking point for a while that queer people are hedonistic and will sacrifice the future for the present because they “can’t have kids” and therefore don’t care about the world that far into the future. I heard it all the time hate-watching Fox. Guess these “leftists” (don’t laugh!) have picked it up
reactionaries doing projection? color me shocked
edit: also that doesn't really relate to malthusianism
Malthusianism has become memetically diluted to mean misanthropy
if you have a “socialist” group thats just a bunch of cishet yt dudes, they wont get much done bc they will tend to uphold institutions that benefit them
Gonna second this one based on personal experience. A lot of people will legitimately regress in their class consciousness in order to defend some sense of pride over their ingroup. Like people who were fully on board with labor action torpedoing shit because of The Gay Agenda or Performative Wokeness. They’ll take a look at a labor union in its infancy and literally go side with management when they start union busting. Like if I tell you, “management is gonna start trying to find wedge issues and one of those is gonna be to get you to throw Anon under the bus,” in no fucking circumstance should your response to be to immediately comply with management.
The flip side of this is that there are people who do have super bigoted beliefs but have the sense to hold their fucking tongue and not act like a puppet on a string the minute someone says one of the conservative culture war trigger words. This always kills me when stupidpol types are ranting about how you have to organize with bigots. You know what? Yeah, you do. And you know what that involves? Getting them to shut the fuck up about that bigotry. And generally as a result they become less bigoted because organizing is about building relationships and getting closer to people is the number 1 way to undo bigoted beliefs
good point, some of those we organize with hold reactionary ideas in their heads. doesnt mean we have to let them air out those ideas. if they are offended by us pushing back against their bigotry they can leave the movement. we dont need people who spread ideas that uphold capital and its institutions in our ranks. for every openly bigoted person we associate with, we alienate many times more marginalized people. they can shut up about their culture war hangups or get out. we support black, indigenous, womens', gay, trans, etc. liberation, no exceptions
just curios but if your organizing is intersectional and includes "the mentally ill" and disabled, why make a post riddled with ableist slurs? as a disabled leftist, i keep seeing folks call themselves allies but wont change their language, make protests accessible, or even wear masks. i hope i dont get hate for pointing this out. we want to be included but if youre fighting for liberation and still use harmful language about us, are we really included? i hope you'll do better.
I think they're referring to "stupid" and "idiocy", both of which are commonly identified by ND comrades as ableist terms.
Unfortunately, they're so baked into our vernacular (same with "dumb", "moron", etc) that getting people to stop using them is difficult in the best of times. Even well-meaning comrades will use these terms without even thinking about it sometimes. But intersectionality means putting in the basic effort to change your language when it's harmful to your comrades and foster true solidarity, which is joanna's point.
i see, i guess i have heard of that but its been a while since ive given it any thought thanks for the reminder
stupid, idiocy, and i believe delusions of grandeur is one. but im not sure if that applies.
that's not how that works. how are you a leftist and defending the use of these words? do you use the nword against Black folks you hate? why is it so hard to use different words? why wont you include disabled people in your fight for liberation? youre just a liberal making liberal excuses because you dont really care or fight for liberation. you are the people you claim to hate. hope you have the day you deserve liberal
i really appreciate that. thank you so much. that is all i needed.
