:reddit-logo: thread for the libs.

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"Andrew Who?" That's most of what the over-30 crowd said in response to the news that Andrew Tate had been banned from TikTok, Instagram, and Facebook after a spate of negative coverage and increasing concerns from parents and teachers about the TikTok star's power over his followers. For adults who don't have teenage sons, the 35-year-old kickboxer-turned-TikTok star was largely unknown, but as anyone in the high school and college age set could tell you, online he was an overnight sensation.

Across the English-speaking world, parents and teachers grew increasingly alarmed, hearing teenage boys and young men parroting Tate's woman-hating rhetoric. One teacher on Reddit last week complained about boys "saying shit like 'women are inferior to men' 'women belong in the kitchen Ms____'.," and refusing "to read an article by a female author because 'women should only be housewives.'" In the thread, multiple teachers chimed in with their own stories about the adolescent fascination with Tate. Beyond arguing that women shouldn't be allowed to drive or work outside of the home, Tate has bragged about beating a woman with a machete and praised Donald Trump for sexually assaulting women.

His popularity is directly attributable to the profit motives of social media companies. As the Guardian demonstrated, if a TikTok user was identified as a teenage male, the service shoveled Tate videos at him at a rapid pace. Until the grown-ups got involved and shut it all down, Tate was a cash cow for TikTok, garnering over 12 billion views for his videos peddling misogyny so vitriolic that one almost has to wonder if he's joking.

Tate is just the latest example of the way that far-right figures lure in young men by preying on their insecurities.

But he is very much not joking.

Police in Romania raided the British-born Tate's Romanian home in April, as part of an investigation into human trafficking. Tate had previously said he likes living in Romania because he believes law enforcement looks the other way on sexual assault allegations.

Parents, teachers, and anyone who cares about the wellbeing of young people should be worried. It's not just that Tate was spreading hateful ideas and encouraging violence against women, though that on its own is terrifying enough. It's that Tate is just the latest example of the way that far-right figures lure in young men by preying on their insecurities. Once the influencers suck in these young men, they start redirecting audience energies towards fascist organizing. Tate is just a piece of a larger puzzle that explains, for instance, how so many otherwise normal young men get wrapped up in groups like the Proud Boys and actions like storming the Capitol on January 6.

The strategy is simple. Far-right online influencers position themselves as "self-help" gurus, ready to offer advice on making money, working out, or, crucially, attracting female attention. But it's a bait-and-switch. Rather than getting good advice on money or health, audiences often are hit with pitches for cryptocurrency scams or useless-but-expensive supplements. And, even worse, rather than being offered genuine guidance on how to be more appealing to women, they're encouraged to blame women — and especially feminism — for their dating woes.

"It's certainly true that male privilege ain't delivering what it used to," Ash Sarkar writes in her piece about Tate for GQ. "Women don't have to sit around waiting to be chosen anymore," but instead are often holding out for male partners who treat them with respect and dignity.

One way for men to respond to this, which many do, is to embrace a more egalitarian worldview and become the partners women desire. But what Tate and other right-wing influencers like him offer male audiences instead is grievance, an opportunity to lash out at feminism. They often even dangle out hope of a return to a system where economic and social dependence on men forced women to settle for unsatisfying or even abusive relationships. Organizing with other anti-feminist men is held out as the answer to their problems.

This bait-and-switch is all over the right-wing influencer world.

What Tate and other right-wing influencers like him offer male audiences instead is grievance, an opportunity to lash out at feminism.

Proud Boys founder Gavin McInness built a young, male audience in large part by suggesting he had the key to landing a "tradwife," which is far-right slang for wives who stay at home and assume a submissive role. (In reality, McInnes's wife is a successful publicist.) Psychology professor-turned-right wing influencer Jordan Peterson first rose to fame as a self-help guru with his book "12 Rules for Life." But his audiences thrill to him not for banal "make your bed" advice, but for proclamations such as recommending "enforced monogamy" on women as a cure for male anxiety. Until his social media ban, Tate was operating something called Hustler University, which promised, for $49 a month, to turn his audience into rich playboys, as he presents himself to be.

But once in the door, the young male audiences aren't just hit with sexist content, but drawn into a larger world of far-right bigotry and, in many cases, anti-democratic sentiment. McInnes's Proud Boys ended up being the vanguard of the Capitol insurrection. Peterson was recently suspended from Twitter and demonetized on YouTube for saying gender transition is "Nazi medical experiment-level wrong."

Most of the coverage of Tate has focused on his misogyny, but as the group Hope Not Hate notes, they've been "monitoring Tate for years, due to his long history of extremism and his close association with major far-right figures." He's been linked with a number of far-right American and British influencers, and not just because he loves Trump. He's been photographed dining with former Infowars anchor Paul Joseph Watson, who was recently recorded ranting about how he wishes "to wipe Jews off the face of the Earth." He's also associated with Jack Posobiec and Mike Cernovich, far-right trolls who pushed Pizzagate and similar hoaxes.

But the 17-year-old kid who starts following Tate because he's titillated by TikTok videos espousing "edgelord" opinions about women doesn't know any of this. All he knows is that this cut guy with a loud mouth is promising that, while "politically incorrect," he's offering advice and opinions that can supposedly give a leg up socially and sexually. It can be intoxicating for young men trying to navigate the confusing and scary world that is often full of rejection. Doubly so when the message they're getting is that the solution isn't to do hard, personal work to make yourself a better catch, but instead to become angry and aggrieved at women for wanting a better deal for themselves.

  • aaaaaaadjsf [he/him, comrade/them]
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    edit-2
    2 years ago

    My niece, whose a girl under 10 years old and does not live in a western country, somehow knows who Andrew Tate is. Thankfully because everyone they know is making fun of him.

    Gen alpha is screwed. These kids never had a chance. They've grown up with a smart device in hand, even in poorer countries, and been fed junk though the algorithms throughout all their development. As a older gen z, I can already see how growing up with technology has kinda fucked us. But the stuff we grew up with is primitive to what the kids have access to these days.

    • Ideology [she/her]
      hexagon
      ·
      2 years ago

      Tbh, I think it creates a heavy divergence between savvy tech users who can spot trolls/grifts in seconds and algorithm junkies with blank-slate brains ready to be filled with propaganda. From my perspective, the average older millenial and gen-xer is unequipped to deal with online discourse and treat facebook (where they spend most of their time) like an extension of RL without seeing the cybernetics it applies to them. Gen Z, rather, is on average more aware of how they're being affected by cybernetics, but choose to ignore it or downplay it when it's convenient or expedient for their treats.

      • aaaaaaadjsf [he/him, comrade/them]
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        edit-2
        2 years ago

        Yeah Facebook is really insidious for older non tech savvy folks, because it combines elements of real life (most people using their real names and pictures) and elements of community with the batshit Zuckerberg-Cambridge analytica algorithms force feeding them nonsense.

        Most older gen z kids or younger millenials grew up with with stuff like flip phones, Mxit, and a blackberry with BBM at most. And only got smart devices in their later teenage years. And that still has had some quite alarming effects in terms of alienation. From chronic internet use (let's be honest that's most of us here), social media overuse, porn addiction, commodification of realtionships online, desensitization to all kinds of things from violence to ideologies, encountering creeps, etc.

        Now imagine that, but growing up with a smartphone in a kid's lap since birth in a post 2008 financial crisis, increasingly alienated world. With the Google algorithms on YouTube beaming shit straight into every kids brain. It's bleak.

        • Ideology [she/her]
          hexagon
          ·
          2 years ago

          :yea: but I think, even then, given their increased skill in cybernetic mediums, it would be easier for them to "get it" if someone pointed this stuff out in a way that doesn't sound like extreme boomerism. Replace "throw away your phone" with "take ownership of your identity."

      • Nakoichi [they/them]M
        ·
        2 years ago

        As the oldest millennial I can confirm all of this is true. I lucked out being equipped from a young age to spot that bullshit.

        • GrouchyGrouse [he/him]
          ·
          2 years ago

          "Don't believe everything you read on the internet" was seared into my brain circa 1998 or 99.

          • AmericaDelendeEst [any]
            ·
            2 years ago

            funny how the people who primarily fed me that line are also the people who uncritically consume whatever "news" is on the television

    • AmericaDelendeEst [any]
      ·
      2 years ago

      social media would be a net good if somehow all the bots and astroturf bullshit could get removed because for the most part people aren't idiots and social media lets people talk about the things they see instead of just passively consume it, but when all that discussion is just 100% shills posing as real people then woops it's even worse than reading/watching the news

    • Frogmanfromlake [none/use name]
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      edit-2
      2 years ago

      It creates more of a divide in some poorer countries as well. My country has a clear divide between rural communities that grew up on old tech and urban communities that had smart phones at a young age. I find the rural kids to be more socialized and capable of living in difficult situations while I've seen the urban kids cry when their phone isn't working.

    • VeganTendies [he/him]
      ·
      2 years ago

      As someone from "the west" the single best thing I would argue for the global south to do is to co-opt chauvinism and tie that into leftism.

      "Look at those westerners! They drool over self-admitted criminals and individuals who want an entire gender to be wiped out, yet they smugly write us off as the savages. They are a barbaric people that simply got lucky."

    • CTHlurker [he/him]
      ·
      2 years ago

      Aren't you South African? I figured Tate would be more popular there, since he keeps fucking talking about South Africa, especially in his infamous quote about how British Cops offend him because they won't take a bribe.

      • aaaaaaadjsf [he/him, comrade/them]
        ·
        2 years ago

        Okay that explains it then, if Tate talks a ton about South Africa.

        And yeah he's right our police are very easy to bribe, for better or worse

        • CTHlurker [he/him]
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          2 years ago

          Have no idea if it comes up or lot or not. Just knows that he talks about it in the one clip of his that keeps getting posted to different youtube channels. I think the context is that he keeps getting speeding-tickets, because obviously he speeds like a madman and tries to get himself killed constantly.