as well as Europeans (Ukraine, Finland) who revere this symbol

Those are Nazis. Finland got the symbol from a founder of the Swedish Nazi Party.

And yet, this hate symbol exists out there.

Inshallah the United Kingdom will break apart and the Union Jack will be no more.

Ukrainians and Fins revering the Swastika in the modern day isn't exactly an example of its good usage. iirc fascists in Finland were using the Swastika before the Nazis did, and the Nazis partly drew inspiration from the Fin usage.

I think the reason the Swastika gets the treatment it does is that it's necessary to the mythology of liberalism that the advent of Nazism was basically a demonic invasion from another plane of existence or some atavistic awakening of an evil in the heart of the human species. It -- and fascism generally -- can't be recognized for what they are, the inevitable consequence of capitalism interacting with Euro imperialist culture, so they need to either be something totally Other or something that exists at the core of humanity. Hitler needs to be a special, powerful demagogue who basically cast a spell on the people of Germany, because if that's not what happened then we might need to grapple with how the liberal Wiemar Republic produced the Nazis. The Swastika is an extension of this, just as Hitler is Satan and the Nazis are demons, the Swastika is the Mark of the Beast, a magical symbol used in evil rituals to corrupt people, and therefore totalizingly reviled. What other explanation could there be for the way Germany bans this iconography while allowing fascists to run wild? It's not a measure that is preventing another Holocaust, it's a measure that creates a basis for the next one, so long as it looks a little different.

I don't feel as strongly as you do about the cultural reception of the Swastika, honestly I just wanted to talk about Hitler not being a wizard because it bothers me. Really, ever since I saw an offhand comment here about Trump keeping a book of Hitler's speeches it's been on my mind, because the myth also produces exactly that kind of fetishization of Hitler's words, which is, uh, not great.

"We defeated the Nazis, we can't be that evil"

Even this couldn't be further from the truth. They had no problem whatsoever allying with the fucking Nazis to take down their common enemy, the communists. Because the communists, unlike the fascists, pose a real threat to their rotting system based on exploitation, if left unhindered it would mean an end to their glorious days of being the modern slave owners. But the fascists only posed a geopolitical threat, their ideology goes along just fine with capitalism, that's why we still see Nazis get standing ovations to this day while communists are being witch hunted.

I read a post recently, I can't remember where, that had a phrase that's been rattling around my head ever since: "Hitler was the Jesus of Europe"

Hitler took all the sins of European colonialism onto himself and then died, absolving Europeans of the guilt for every crime they committed before, as well as the crimes they would go on to commit after. By raising Hitler and the Nazis to the position of 'ultimate evil', and then pretending the western allies opposed and rejected the Nazis from pure and simple moral goodness, they can spin the lie of Europe as being fundamentally good - rather than the truth that the Nazis were a mere intensified extension of the same brutual colonialism that is the true nature of the European powers.

And of course as part of that, the swastika has to be considered a symbol of literally unspeakable evil, as in you cannot talk about it at all. It's a huge shame that such a widespread and ancient symbol (I've heard it may be based on the positions of the constellation Ursa Major around the pole star on the solstices and equinoxes) is stained in this way, to the extent that any design with curving radial symmetry seems inherently suspicious.

I'm also glad to see someone else put into words my true revulsion at the Union Jack - needless to say, the same goes a thousand-fold for the Stars and Stripes. When the true history of the world is finally written, that will go down as the single most utterly evil symbol of all time.

You see, the Nazis lost. Their symbols are recognized as what they stand for: evil and genocide. The British haven't lost yet. They remain part of the dominant power bloc, and their ideology is seen as normal and fine.

If there's so much concern about this hooked cross being a hate symbol, why isn't it being calling it flyfot or hakenkreuz? Surely, those are Euro-centric words, right? Why drag a culture that had nothing to do with the Holocaust?

I've been calling the hate symbol "Hakenkreuz" for years before I was a commie, and I didn't get why other people didn't do the same... Like, it's such a ridiculously small thing, to change the name of the hate symbol to acknowledge the difference between it and the perfectly normal symbol revered throughout the world, and yet apparently nobody around me can be bothered to try, even when I try to lead by example... I remember, actually, one time in lower secondary school, I was looking at the seals of the states of India on a school computer, and I actually landed in a bit of trouble with my teacher because one of the seals (Bihar's) had swastikas on it. And I explained to my teacher that it was an Indian state seal, that the swastika is a sacred symbol, and my teacher said that she already knew but simply did not care. That little symbol made her so uncomfortable that she would not stand for me looking at it.

If we put on our POSIWID hats for a moment, we could say from this experience that at least one of the reasons why swastikas and Hakenkreuze are "painted with the same brush" and referred to with the same name, is precisely to discourage curiosity about other countries and cultures, by associating them with the shame, disgust, and uncertainty of antisemitic graffiti — to get people to laugh at other cultures, even, or to feel afraid of exchanging culture for fear of being misinterpreted (which is not helped by whites using "Hindu culture" as an excuse for actual hateful usage), and things like that... A lot of imperial exploitation is bound up in isolating the labor aristocracy from those whose exploitation they benefit from, and this type of cultural isolation is just one more tool in that arsenal.

Good post with much to think about. I think the push towards calling the symbol by its actual German name will have to come from India and other Global South countries since European countries have no interest to right this wrong.

1. If you're Indian, get used to being the most hated race on the planet. If you live in the west, get a gun. Consider lying about your ethnicity when specifically asked (people are dumb and any Indian person can pass as Arab, Latino, Afro-Latino, etc to them)

2. Whites are obsessed with the word 'swastika' because they lived in swamp holes when the rest of the world was civilized. Also the same reason they're obsessed with 'aryan' (originally used to describe Northwest Indians) and why they've successfully retconned it into meaning blue haired and blonde eyed

3. "For about 3000 years, it was a revered symbol in most parts of the world. For almost a quarter of a century, it was a hate symbol in a small part of the world." This is also true of literally every single plant and animal with an entry on Wikipedia. They all had various indigenous names for 3000+ years, and are now called "Splotchson's Babcock" because a guy named Splotchson was rich enough to tour Sumatra 90 years ago

I can't just imagine how they'll be bullied.

I’m confused. Is this happening anywhere? I can’t imagine most of the religious people who use swastikas in their worship give a shit about crackers crying about their beliefs instead of solving the Nazism in their own countries. I’ve never heard of anyone getting bullied or harassed for their religious swastikas being associated with Nazis. The chances of some white liberal walking up to you and tut tuting some POC about their symbols is quite slim.

The closest thing I can think of is when white western kids suddenly have a fixation on “Hindu culture” when pressed about the swastikas on their profiles or notebooks.