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irrefutable evidence
I don't even think that much is possible. There is no universe where someone comes out and says "The U.S. committed 9/11 and here is proof." and everyone believes it, even if it were true. We live in a post-truth reality.
Right now just saying "U.S. foreign policy causes things like 9/11 to happen" makes people to think you're a crackpot.
I mean I guess, but we already have that and it kind of proves my point. Loose Change exists, many people believe the wealthy are all pedos but it doesn't change anything.
It all just becomes (or is) conspiracy, or consent gets manufactured and none of it matters afterwards.
Will Smith and Chris Rock get invited to the Oscars again.
Muricans are too comfortable, feeding off the blood and sweat of the global south, to demand major systemic change. You can highlight all the evil stuff their government does around the world, or in this case 9/11, and they might be upset for a while, but at the end of the day, their lives are comfortable and treats are plentiful.
If it's not worth trying to change the world at all, why are you even here? Go out and do something you love while you still can.
Yeah, didn't it come out in the last decade or so that the Gulf of Tonkin incident was (almost?) entirely made up, and this was known at the highest levels and pushed anyway as an excuse to get further involved in Vietnam? Not even plausible deniability anymore. Nothing happened.
Same thing with the WMD lie in Iraq, although I don't know exactly where we are on the path to "this was completely made up and everyone involved knew it."
has there ever been a case in the history of humanity that simply "learning the truth" has lead to any kind of revolution?
The most impactful truth reveal ever was Nixon resigning, back when it was expected that you would resign if this stuff got out.
:lenin-sure: :mao-wtf: :fidel-balling: and some truth are they
MAGA Republicans would benefit politically.
Democrats have politically aligned with the intelligence industry and RINOs. Bush is a RINO, not a MAGA Republican.
MAGA Republicans can throw CIA under the bus hard, while Democrats are stuck trying to call the whole thing an op, or build distance w/intelligence.
You’d see some drawn out lawsuits.
And that’s about it.
This sort of revelation (of which there have been many) only flips people around the margins. It has to get past public apathy, the media burying it, the fact that better than half of people actually interested in learning history will either reject the information or do nothing with it, and the passage of time that magically disconnects the current American government from responsibility or suspicion.
Yup. They probably blame it all on some conveniently dead “rogue” ex-intelligence agents or military people or whatever and move right along.
If there were irrefutable evidence that the US did 9/11, libs would refute it anyway and call it Russian misinformation. The news about it would be spiked harder than the Hunter laptop story, and anyone talking about it would be called a conspiracy theorist.
The conservatives might try to use it against Brandon, but they wouldn't care anymore after the election, as usual.
People who feel like the government represents them will reject the evidence one way or another. People who feel alienated from the government will use this as another reason why they are right to feel alienated.
Centrist and liberal media will try to minimize or discredit the evidence. Conservative media will accept it, but blame it on Dems and bad conservatives.
Maybe there would be a further ramping up of conspiratorial thinking on the left and the right.
People would post about it a lot on social media. There would be some small protests at city halls that would die out in a few weeks. I think lasting protests would be need to be based on concrete economic and political demands, not a vague 'hold these people accountable'.
I think the government and media would create a "firebreak" in the narrative. Meaning, they would probably admit that some segment of the government was responsible but nothing that would imply some broader indictment of our system of governance. Only concede enough so Americans can sleep at night knowing everything is still basically ok.
You already see this in how Americans blame "faulty intelligence" as the casus belli for the invasion. No no, Bush wasn't lied to or pushed for fake intel to justify invading Iraq, it's just the CIA did an oopsie doopsie. Those brave men and women in the intelligence community did their gosh darn best but got this one a little wrong, is all. No one to blame...
That's nuts, I remember the CIA refuting any association with the narrative of wmds in Iraq
something between nothing and not much. It would only be covered by fringe news sites and would be actively censored on social media.
The interesting question is what if it came out and it became undeniable, what would happen then?
Still nothing. People would be like wow that’s messed up then go back to their lives.
I mean the CIA was literally caught spying on congress and they just keep shoveling money to them lol.
Most people don't give a shit about Congress but they've been trained to give Very Much a Shit about 9/11 victims because of how useful that is to the war crimes industrial complex.
That firehose is not actually ever going to be turned around back on the system, but if it was, it would be significant.
The media would pivot to "Bush did 9/11, but that's good actually". We'd see tons of nuclear takes like "it was needed to unify the West, NATO may have disbanded without a common enemy and then Putler would have marched all the way to Berlin twenty years later."
Like most politicians are actively denying climate change and about half denied COVID existing, so what do you mean by "undeniable"?
If you're a cynical actor there's nothing you can't deny. After that large swaths of the population will simply believe that denial as the truth and kill any momentum.
By undeniable I mean things happening that obviously aren't remotely likely, such as extremely specific documents and recordings being leaked, followed by a confession by major perpetrators. Arrests. Attempts to go after 99 year old George Bush or whatever.
At some level it would become actually be undeniable to anyone who doesn't deny the Sun exists and the Earth is round, which is currently a sufficient number of people to have a societal impact.
Even George Floyd's death, which was one guy getting murdered, and a Black guy at that, still had a lot of conservatives on the back foot, like "well, that was obviously horrible but" and so on. Not all of them but a lot.
At this point, any credible evidence would be handwaved away as "it happened in the past."
I'm going to echo any comment so far that amounts to the majority of people doing the, "Oh, well yeah, of course it was", before going back to the bug mines and slowly dying of Bug Mold Lung.
Outrage then apathy.
The cynical part of me says that the US is a gross, depressing bog where no real radical change can ever take root.
Yeah, sounds about right @ both. Can't imagine why anyone would think anything else, unless they were incredibly naïve.
