From the Fallout Wiki:
"RE: Caesar’s Karma being neutral: I believe at the time my rationale for that Karma setting is that Caesar is in a Mr. Kurtz-like state of unmoored morality. Whatever moral framework he had as Edward Sallow among the Followers has disintegrated after years of being Caesar. I.e., it’s not so much that his Karma is neutral as much as it is alien. That said, I don’t feel strongly about that designation and largely feel that the Karma system was vestigial in New Vegas. If we’re trying to encourage players to form their own opinions about factions and individuals, having a design layer that assigns (essentially) alignment is weird."
"I'm sure individual players might want to engage in ranking atrocities -- something I've never really found was productive in discussions about history -- but Caesar and his crew in the same league as other brutal warlords. He was inspired (on our end) by people like Charles Taylor, Timur, and Simon de Montfort (the crusader). "Caesar" is a persona he adopted, but he effectively operates as a warlord with no regard for individual human lives outside of how he can use them."
I think Josh Sawyer confused karma with alignment.
I think Josh Sawyer confused karma with alignment.
I think this is a case of FO3s morality seems (there's good and bad deeds) being mixed in with F:NVs morality system (there's deeds that make a given community like or dislike you)
Considering the development of FNV I guess they just didn't get rid of the old one and had to assign some value, I don't think it's that deep.
In fairness this is every player I've ever had trying to justify why turning the orphanage in to a fuel/air bomb was the only way to defeat the dragon and save the day. I don't even know how they keep getting hold of orphanages.
More people have finished Fallout New Vegas in Hardcore mode than with Ceasar's Legion
part of that is that the whole faction is half-baked because it was rushed to release. Legion got the most cut from it, multiple towns beyond the Colorado were scrapped. And siding with the legion locks you out of a lot of other quests, so why bother?
Even if it's half-baked, I think the foundation of it is pretty repulsive especially the slavery and cultural annihilation point is pretty repulsive to a lot of people ethically.
And honestly, I'm glad its half-baked because if we got "civilian" settlements showing the Legion as "Being Safe and Prosperous" despite the slavery, mass misery, and cultural annihilation that they commit, a lot more Fallout fans would've been fascist trash (See: Enclave fanboys)
Do you have any more information about the cut legion content? Sounds very interesting.
Here's an early map but I don't know much more about it besides that legion was the last faction they worked on so they suffered the most cuts. You could probably find more information in the new Vegas subreddit
I'm one of those people. I've tried legion playthroughs, but eventually, the urge to just murder everyone at the fort starting with Caesar becomes too great. I've usually burned too many bridges with the NCR by that point, but fuck em, liberals who want the pre-war US back are also bad.
Where did you get your fucking info on dialectics? Fucking Jason Unruhe? Jesus fucking Christ I cannot deal with this bullshit right now
I'm sad Bat'ko appears to have deleted his Jason Unruhe Steamed Hams edit
'I’m sure individual players might want to engage in ranking atrocities' and 'he effectively operates as a warlord with no regard for individual human lives outside of how he can use them'.
"Yep, sounds like a guy with Neutral Karma," - Josh Sawyer
HER NAME IS DARTH BETRAYAL
But somehow nerds still couldn't figure it out.
Sawyer is confused in general I think, I found a quote from him calling the followers of the apocalypse, the guys who do decentralized mutual aid and community organizing, and who split with the NCR for being violent imperialists, "social dems".
Haven't the official lore nerds of wh40k tried to retcon the whole bloodtide stuff from Matt ward because even they thought he was being too edgy to the point of absurdity even for the absurd edginess that is wh40k?
Hating Grey KnightsMe :unity: Space Wolves
(And normally I think Space Wolves are pretty cringe)
it’s not so much that his Karma is neutral as much as it is alien.
“Caesar” is a persona he adopted, but he effectively operates as a warlordSo he has neutral karma because he's a white dude with fasces aesthetics and would not be neutral if he wouldn't only act, but look like a run-of-the-mill warlord anywhere in the loot and plunder zones capitalism has created in the Global South?
Then there's how in Jsawyer mod he patched McLafferty (Crimson Caravan boss) from neutral into evil.
edit: he also made the post-apocalyptic neolib imperialist Colonel Moore evil too.
I'm sorry, but the karma system introduced in Fallout 3 was stupid. The only thing wrong here is that Obsidian didn't remove it entirely. A game doesnt need to tell you with a pop up if something/someone is good or bad, any half intelligent player can figure that out themselves
It's not his fault. Fallout 3 use Karma as alignment in a very heavy handed way, while the system in FOI and FOII was much more nuanced and more about consequences than morality. FONV was built on the FOIII engine and I assume the karma system carried over.
