This was inspired by a post I saw the other day.
In my city, there’s a fast food restaurant where people regularly use the drive through, park in a nearby neighborhood to eat, and when they’re done just toss their trash out the window.
What’s to be done about this in an ideal world? My initial thought is that “police” should stake it out and hand out littering tickets to those doing this.
Of course, these police would be unarmed, properly trained in deescalation, and maybe not even part of a greater police department (supposing such department even exists).
But I’m worried that this is just a super lib response, and wondering what your thoughts are. I’m a bit troubled by handing out these fines - these are potentially hundreds of dollars to people who can’t afford it. And an alternative sentence of community service to clean up trash, while there seems to be a sense of proportionate justice to it, is of course forced labor and would be unconstitutional under the 13th amendment but for that exception that people on this website love to quote and dunk on. Moreover, this is a deterrence-based approach which opens its own can of worms.
Instead of police giving tickets, why not have the business ban litterers from drive through and offenders have to dine in or fucking go without? And why not make the business responsible to prevent littering but then the "customer is always right" has to go and good riddance. Business should be made to uphold the norms of the community even if it impacts their precious profit, fuck 'em.
And how do you expect to uphold any of these laws without some kind of police force? The fact is if there was some kind of leftist overthrow of the US government there would need to be some sort of police force, nobody that is currently is a cop or is white should be allowed to be apart of this of course, but the state must have the monopoly on violence because the party should control the state. Anarchists think that humanity is capable of governing itself without a higher force, their efforts to abolish the American police force is useful to us, but eventually we would have to implement red cops. Anyways violence is cool when we do it.
I didn't mean abolish all organized law enforcement. I guess what I meant is that any police force should hold business accountable and the law should also state as much. The notion that supplying people with litter to throw is on business. Same with single use plastics etc. I feel like shuffling police duties and behaviors around without addressing who is the criminal in littering isn't a complete analysis. Capitalism assigns the responsibility to the powerless constantly.
deleted by creator
As a boomer who realized I was left (and that I disn't understand why I hated libs as much as I did conservatives) only after supporting Bernie in 2016, I appreciate the encouragement. God knows I didn't get any in the McCarthy=>Regan era so better late than never. Just happy to be here. :hexbear-retro:
deleted by creator
I sympathise on the parents score.
Mine were born in the 30's so their childhood was spent absorbing WW2 propaganda like reddit does Iraq war or Hong Kong or Russia propaganda. When they came of age the war was over, but they were so bamboozled that the Korean war was their chance to be Americans or whatever and the McCarthy shit embedded in their brains makes them rage to this day if you mention socialism or communism.
I've given up but I forgive them because I learned to see the brainwashing and I just slide around it and direct what conversations I have with them to family stuff. That and I moved a state away so I could think for myself without abuse.
The boomers I grew up with were mostly shoulder shrug libs, the chuds whose parents were rich or local business owners and officials and a handful of outcasts (whether willingly or unwillingly). There were a few leftists in the outcast class and a few in the arts groups. But the hard sciences and athletes and shop geeks were all chuds. Mostly products of their families TBH.
So when people look at boomers and see the mainstream propaganda picture of "hippies", it would be wise to remember that every generation is created by the system we live in still. Reddit is proof that nothing much has changed as far as American culture. I see hippies as the primal keening of the cultural left as it was systematically destroyed, a last hurrah. Life went on.
The only difference I see now is that material conditions are getting bad enough to warrant thinking a thought, unless the TV got there first and then it's pretty sad. I've said since before the second Bush that this country needs to hit rock bottom before anything gets better.
Thinking is the answer in my opinion. Get someone to think, even a little. I have a Trump supporting neighbor and he swaggered up to me last summer and we lamented over the current problems. He wanted to tell me about "Conservative values" and I looked him right in the eye and said "You mean American values?" and he hasn't spoken to me about politics since. The contradictions inherent in distancing himself from his nationalism or from his tribalism left his brain sparking. Lucky head shot I guess.
And let this be a lesson that you should never engage with anyone near or over 60 as they start going on and on forever and won't shut up. :)
I wonder if I will know if I become demented and continue to pollute the forums with nonsense and not knowing it is? I hope not.