Right now, YOU are the one who’s letting fascists control the government because of your hatred of centrists and neoliberals.
that's just like...not how voting works. i did vote for dems btw, in races that ended up being close and important for senate and gubernatorial positions. but WE, we the voters that is, have little to do with who controls the government because we don't pick who runs and we don't have power to control what they do when they get there. in 2020, dems had a better position than they currently do, and yet did very little. they could have protected abortion before it was overturned, they could have pressured rbg to resign before she died in office, etc. etc. etc. if it weren't joe manchin and kristin sinema being the individual embodiments of a block to popular policy, they would simply be leading a slightly larger cohort of right-wing dems that would form an anti-anything-good voting bloc. how much do they need to have the senate by for you to not make excuses for them?
I 100% get your point and agree with it. Dems, as an institution, are bad. So are the Republicans. My whole point is that the Republicans, as seen by recent anti-trans, anti-gay and anti-abortion bills in their states, are gonna sink to levels of depravity the Dems wouldn’t.
Sure, maybe, Biden lied and even if we won the House, he wouldn’t have put forth an abortion bill. I think he would’ve but I can understand why people think otherwise.
BUT if you have a Dem House, you won’t have anti-trans and anti-abortion bills either! Which is a distinct possibility in a republican government. Maybe not right now, but in 2024?
BUT if you have a Dem House, you won’t have anti-trans and anti-abortion bills either! Which is a distinct possibility in a republican government.
that's the rub. this is a very short-sighted thing to struggle with us about ideologically. you're absolutely right, pretty much the best median behavior you can expect from a dem-led governing coalition is a bit of respite from active harm, and that's if you're not black or an immigrant or someone in a part of the third world that we're currently bombing. when dems refuse to go solve people's problems, it's simply a matter of time before the fascist flood gates burst. spending energy thinking about, much less arguing about, voting and who's doing it hard enough is energy that you're not using figuring out how to build power for when the dem "do no harm by doing nothing at all, probably" coalition collapses terminally. it doesn't really matter whether they would or wouldn't end up trying to put out an abortion bill. if they did, it's only so little respite from the very real reactionary material forces that are building up as the internal stability of the imperial system breaks down as it is.
That’s a good point. My idea is not to just vote and keep voting for the Dems in hopes that things never get worse. You vote for the Dems and then use that time of respite to build up organisations for socialism and solidarity.
that's just like...not how voting works. i did vote for dems btw, in races that ended up being close and important for senate and gubernatorial positions. but WE, we the voters that is, have little to do with who controls the government because we don't pick who runs and we don't have power to control what they do when they get there. in 2020, dems had a better position than they currently do, and yet did very little. they could have protected abortion before it was overturned, they could have pressured rbg to resign before she died in office, etc. etc. etc. if it weren't joe manchin and kristin sinema being the individual embodiments of a block to popular policy, they would simply be leading a slightly larger cohort of right-wing dems that would form an anti-anything-good voting bloc. how much do they need to have the senate by for you to not make excuses for them?
I 100% get your point and agree with it. Dems, as an institution, are bad. So are the Republicans. My whole point is that the Republicans, as seen by recent anti-trans, anti-gay and anti-abortion bills in their states, are gonna sink to levels of depravity the Dems wouldn’t.
Sure, maybe, Biden lied and even if we won the House, he wouldn’t have put forth an abortion bill. I think he would’ve but I can understand why people think otherwise.
BUT if you have a Dem House, you won’t have anti-trans and anti-abortion bills either! Which is a distinct possibility in a republican government. Maybe not right now, but in 2024?
that's the rub. this is a very short-sighted thing to struggle with us about ideologically. you're absolutely right, pretty much the best median behavior you can expect from a dem-led governing coalition is a bit of respite from active harm, and that's if you're not black or an immigrant or someone in a part of the third world that we're currently bombing. when dems refuse to go solve people's problems, it's simply a matter of time before the fascist flood gates burst. spending energy thinking about, much less arguing about, voting and who's doing it hard enough is energy that you're not using figuring out how to build power for when the dem "do no harm by doing nothing at all, probably" coalition collapses terminally. it doesn't really matter whether they would or wouldn't end up trying to put out an abortion bill. if they did, it's only so little respite from the very real reactionary material forces that are building up as the internal stability of the imperial system breaks down as it is.
That’s a good point. My idea is not to just vote and keep voting for the Dems in hopes that things never get worse. You vote for the Dems and then use that time of respite to build up organisations for socialism and solidarity.