Yh I think alot of the convo and the ease with which we joke about it does reflect the fact that many westerners (most people on this site), if they're working class, have experienced terrible exploitation, alienation, depression, and anxiety, and well as a host of other mental health issues due to capitalism, and possibly also experienced some more direct violence at the hands of the state, but haven't lived in countries or communities that have actually gone through the unimaginable traumas of actually wielding violence this appalling, especially if your enemy wants to annihilate or genocide you. Unfortunately the reality of the enemy, and their history, suggests that victory isn't really possible otherwise.