So this video popped up on my YouTube feed. WARNING: copoganda, murder, discussion of domestic violence. The tldr is that the woman accidentally killed her boyfriend, the boyfriend got arrested for a few domestic violence calls so 🤷, but then the woman goes completely white lady on the situation and denies any responsibility and argues every point like a 5 year old. Her lawyers all quit because they can't stand her, and people are chiming in the comments that they knew her IRL and that she was a massive a-hole in her town. One lawyer quit over professional differences, and other lawyers quit for different reasons.

I sorta think that maybe this woman sucks, but locking her in a box for 40 years isn't gong to help anything.

I will mention that I've been burnt hard by narcissists in the past. But once I've learned to spot them, they're just often sad. There's a few in my various communities, and we all just sorta manage and ignore them. Oh, maybe I'm wrong, but they often seem more rich than the general population.

  • Dirt_Owl [comrade/them, they/them]
    ·
    2 years ago

    I have a line where if narcissists and psychopaths are rewarded by our current capitalist society, then I consider it punching up to hate them.

    Currently, they are given power and use that power to hurt people.

        • Dirt_Owl [comrade/them, they/them]
          ·
          edit-2
          2 years ago

          How is it ableism? Do you think people like Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk are rendered less able by capitalism?

          Sure, in a socialist society, they would get the help they need. But, speaking as someone who suffers from mental illness myself, narcissists have caused me a lot of suffering in my life while being fully aware of what they were doing and having more than enough material power to stop. They often target those with less socially acceptable mental illnesses, like Autism, so excuse me for finding it difficult to pity them.

          • Huldra [they/them, it/its]
            ·
            edit-2
            2 years ago

            Are Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk psychopaths and/or narcissists?

            Associating clinical diagnoses with just randomly selected bad guys who on the surface seem to correspond to those diagnoses is definitely kinda ableist imo.

            Edit: And also yes I am aware of overrepresentation in boss positions and shit like that, is that the only places that ASPD(the actual clinical diagnosis associated with "psychopathy") and NPD are overrepresented in society? Just from googling it seems like people with ASPD are also very likely to end up homeless or imprisoned, as well as suffering from substance addiction.

          • PapaEmeritusIII [any]
            ·
            2 years ago

            “Yes, mental illnesses can be stressful and cause issues in relationships with loved ones” and “no, mental illness does not make up a person’s entire personality nor does it make them inherently abusive or a bad person” are two statements that can and must coexist.

            I recommend checking out this comrade’s comment if you haven’t seen it already: https://hexbear.net/post/259503/comment/3349538

        • FuckYourselfEndless [ze/hir]
          ·
          2 years ago

          Love how easily radlibs can go into leftist spaces and fuck up the entire conversation just by chucking academic terms around.

    • usernamesaredifficul [he/him]
      ·
      edit-2
      2 years ago

      I know narcissists in general probably don’t care about much of anyone if they’re legitimately that incapable of experiencing care for others

      If someone is incapable of something it is also profoundly unjust to hold them to account for not doing it

      also lets not shoot people unless it's actually necessary. A person can be prevented from harming others via other means than murder. Too many times people seem to get angry and propose harsh punishments for things when all they really want is the person to be made to stop doing what they're doing. It's satisfying to support harsh punative justice but it's also not helpful and doesn't make any of the problems you are punishing better it just puts more cruelty out into the world

    • ButtBidet [he/him]
      hexagon
      ·
      2 years ago

      I wish more people said this. Is there anything else you wish other people knew? Cuz honestly I don't have any open narcissists in my life right now.

      • GaveUp [she/her]
        ·
        edit-2
        2 years ago

        My answer was just a joke, I never want support from others or pity unless I'm trying to be manipulative

        My own opinion on personality disorders, particularly cluster b disorders as somebody with borderline, antisocial, and narcissistic traits and having dated somebody with full blown BPD diagnoses is that it is both OK to hate them as well as support and pity them if you have the heart to

        BPD and narcissism traits are almost always developed as a self defence mechanism from extreme trauma. Generally broken homes with verbal, physical, sexual abuse, lack of affection, neglectful parenting, etc.

        Regardless of whatever reasons though, the person in question is still responsible for their own words and actions. Having being hurt themselves does not give them any sort of pass to hurt others as well for their own selfish reasons. It's still up to them to get help and improve themselves

        So if you're kind enough, I do think that some leeway can be given if they're genuinely trying to get better and are genuinely remorseful for the harm they've done to others

        • SaniFlush [any, any]
          ·
          2 years ago

          If you don’t mind me asking, what inspired you to support leftism? Right wing ideology seems like it would be an easy path to power, and there’s very little institutional pressure to lean left anywhere in the English speaking world.

          • Shoegazer [he/him]
            ·
            2 years ago

            It could be that some just see the logic and want to benefit from socialism without caring about others

            • GaveUp [she/her]
              ·
              2 years ago

              If you're curious I posted a somewhat detailed response above

              Thankfully I benefit greatly from Western imperialism

          • GaveUp [she/her]
            ·
            2 years ago

            So at first it was because

            • This is where the truth lies. Even a kid I saw through the imperialistic xenophobic propaganda against Russia, China, and even DPRK though I never understood it to a deep level. It feeds my ego so hard that I'm correct. And I'm the type that's obsessed with finding out the truth behind everything. I'm naturally extremely curious

            • Personal spite. Was one point about to get retirement money. Not powerful or influential money but just retire for life very comfortably money. Then I got completely devoured by powerful and influential money because that's how capitalism works

            • My home life and father also went down a bad mental trajectory after 2008

            • I have a victim complex. Feels good to be able to blame capitalism lmao

            • Am a minority

            • Antisocial symptoms in the imperial core means that I'm automatically antisocial against a liberal capitalistic society

            • Grew up with an average family income in a wealthy suburb neighborhood

            • Feeling of extreme moral superiority

            I will say that over time, as I've learned more about history, geopolitics, and economic exploitation, that I have genuinely learned conditional empathy for the exploited. My heart genuinely hurts for those in the global south and all the victims of economic inequality that I see in my day to day life. The ones working shitty minimum wage jobs, the homeless, etc. My automatic response to panhandling used to be ignore and not treat them as humans and now it's to enjoy a chat with them and help them out in whatever way I can

            I've also developed a pretty strong moral compass

            • SaniFlush [any, any]
              ·
              2 years ago

              Cool. When the world around us improves, our own lives improve- I can see the value of that.

  • Huldra [they/them, it/its]
    ·
    edit-2
    2 years ago

    Her lawyers all quit because they can’t stand her

    Apparently that part is also kinda copaganda from what I've heard, or at least I've been told that most quit due to normal shit like conflict of interest concerns or in one case, having to focus on trying to get a guy off death row.

    edit: https://www.courttv.com/news/sarah-boone-accused-in-boyfriends-suitcase-death-pens-letter-to-attorney-and-judge/

    Found this source that says her first attorney quit due to an "adverserial attorney-client relationship" and then the rest inbetween the first and current quit due to conflicts of interest.

    As to like the actual question, I think its best to judge each person on their own. Personality disorders are extremely difficult to handle for both the person themselves and their surrounding, and society is really not set up in any way to help them deal with it in a healthy manner. But that doesnt necessarily mean you "have" to have empathy for those who end up causing physical or emotional pain and suffering, its up to you to make your own decision on that.

    And for this lady in particular idk, the trial hasnt happened yet so theres definitely plenty of facts left out, theres reports of her and the man she killed being mutually abusive towards each other, and rumors of her ex husband having said she was physically abusive with him as well(Havent seen accusations of it being mutual in that case.) So idk, personally I dont feel like I want to or have to make a stand either way, its not something I have to concern myself with.

    • ButtBidet [he/him]
      hexagon
      ·
      2 years ago

      I updated the text. Thanks for the nuance. You're right, there's a lot more we don't know about this case.

    • space_comrade [he/him]
      ·
      2 years ago

      and then the rest inbetween the first and current quit due to conflicts of interest.

      What does this mean tho? Which interest is in conflict?

      • Huldra [they/them, it/its]
        ·
        2 years ago

        Some guy on reddit said one attorney had previously represented the deceased man in a domestic violence case, and another had represented a witness several times in the past, and then a third just had some unspecified conflict of interest.

        But also someone asked for sources and they responded "Do your own research, I've been researching this case for 2 years" so that doesnt inspire great confidence.

  • usernamesaredifficul [he/him]
    ·
    2 years ago

    I don't think you should hate them and they do deserve pity. But you also have to protect yourself from them and don't need to feel any guilt about taking measures to mitigate and prevent the danger they may pose to yourself and others. It's like how Milton presented the devil as at once a tragic figure and also incredibly dangerous. You should give them all the help you can safely and have no duty to give them an iota more than that

    40 years in jail definitely won't help here (I'm not convinced the prison system has ever helped) and in a sensible system we would probably do some kind of house arrest and mandatory therapy or something

  • DivineChaos100 [none/use name]
    ·
    2 years ago

    As if with every personality disorder, narcissism is only a circumstance, not an excuse. If someone knows they have problems and are trying to get help, they deserve sympathy, if someone denies it and actively sabotages every attempt at helping them, there's not much one can do.

  • kissinger
    ·
    edit-2
    1 year ago

    deleted by creator

  • TheLepidopterists [he/him]
    ·
    edit-2
    2 years ago

    Idk if she has an actual personality disorder, certainly nothing diagnosed but my mother was pretty psychologically/religiously abusive, manipulative and controlling in both my youth and when I was a young adult. It was worse for my little sister, and at this time I am pretty low contact with her and my sister is no contact with her.

    I absolutely pity our mother, and she constantly puts herself into pitiable situations and every other month or so I have a phone call with her, which is pretty emotionally draining, and mostly is her complaining about conflicts with the rest of our family.

    My sister I think might hate her, and while I can't bring myself to feel that strongly, I also don't blame her for it. Both of our partners I'm pretty sure hate her, because they don't have the conflicted feelings of having been raised by her but have seen the impact she's had on my sister and me; can't blame them for it either.

    For someone who has never been personally harmed/had a loved one personally harmed by her if they hated her I'd find it pretty irrational I think, but I also think it's cruel to tell someone it's wrong to hate their abuser because the abuse stems from a disorder.

    I don't have any thoughts on the lady in the OP though, if she killed her abuser that's fine you know?

  • autismdragon [he/him, they/them]
    ·
    2 years ago

    While I don't know for certain that my mother has NPD, my opinion has long been to believe that she does based on my observations and therefor not hate her for abusing me. Like, I'm no contact with her and everything and despite my sister insisting that she's changed I dont have much interest in trying to rebuild a relationship, I just... don't hate her. Not that she doesn't deserve accountability for her actions or anything I just, I can't bring myself to apply contempt to her either.

  • MoneyIsTheDeepState [comrade/them,he/him]
    ·
    2 years ago

    Hate's not too useful imo, except to make war slightly easier when it's in progress

    I'd say everyone deserves support and pity. I'll always support an abuse victim over their abuser, including if they kill them as is their sacred right, but my top priority in how to handle the abuser is to indefinitely protect potential victims from them. My second priority is to give them opportunities to grow, whether or not they take them

    Punishment isn't on my priority list at all. Fuck, even with all the CEOs I'd love to see hangin' out like Mussolini, I don't think it would be good to take the revenge route. Not that I'd complain, but I think a government should be more compassionate than I am as a person

  • thisonethatone [he/him]
    ·
    2 years ago

    As someone who was raised by narcissists what they really need is to be in a gulag. Working on a farm, building community, and not having control over others.

    My nmom got dramatically worse when she moved to the burbs and became overlord of our household.

    Community environments with positive social pressure / reparenting is what's needed. She got the way she did after growing up in a hoader house with eight kids. She was left to fend for herself emotionally, and it made her so volatile and controlling that I had to go NC.

    There is a good person in there, but she just doesn't know how to empathize outside her pov.

  • Shoegazer [he/him]
    ·
    2 years ago

    They deserve to have their ass beaten if they start to severely negatively affect other people’s lives, such as parents abusing their children. But if it’s just some random guy who’s annoying you then I just treat them like anyone else and ignore them.