i can't believe this exists

  • GarbageShoot [he/him]
    ·
    2 years ago

    [a concept] is racist because if you squint you can make it look like nonsensical, false ideas about a disparate group of unconnected ethnicities

    In a small way we're making progress because the rhetorical knots you are tying yourself in are increasingly poor.

    nonsensical, false ideas

    Standard of a racial caricature, or do you think Jews are really greedy?

    about a disparate group of unconnected ethnicities

    They are not especially close genealogically, but they are socially quite connected as colonized first peoples

    Taking these things in mind, you question is if the depiction of goblins:

    is racist because if you squint you can make it look like [the racial caricatures] about [colonized first peoples]

    And suddenly the question is just the squinting part, i.e. "How similar is this to those caricatures?" which is what I've been trying to discuss, though you keep cherry picking individual elements when my argument is that it, like most caricatures, is a confluence of traits. It's like if the defense in a stabbing case said "Yes, my client owns a knife, but so do many people. Are you going to convict him just for that?" "Yes, my client was at the park at the time of the attack. What? Is it illegal to visit the park? lmao" "Yes, my client was seen disposing of what may have been a pair of gloves. What? Do you propose that just taking out the trash makes them a killer? Is that really all you have?"

    Like, it's inductive reasoning, not deductive reasoning. I am not proposing these elements in isolation.

    You can look at Dr. Stone and see primitive societies that aren't racial stereotypes, even though one of them is indeed quite violent. That's not what I'm saying and I think you know that's not what I'm saying, which makes me wonder why you even bother. Are you that upset by criticism of this obviously sexist, racist shit that you think you can just string me along until I get bored of it and then you can enjoy your wholesome rape softporn and genocide series in peace? I'm going to keep re-explaining myself every time you mischaracterize me, so you're going to need to develop a new coping strategy or just learn to wank while keeping your mouth shut. Do what you fucking want, but don't piss on my head and tell me it's raining.

    • GorbinOutOverHere [comrade/them]
      ·
      2 years ago

      In a small way we’re making progress because the rhetorical knots you are tying yourself in are increasingly poor.

      talking like this about anime shit is why I say "nerds" you're a nerd I'm a nerd it's okay to admit it's nerd shit when you debate bro about fantasy race politics in anime for like 4 hours

      Standard of a racial caricature, or do you think Jews are really greedy?

      a well known racist trope versus literally the vaguest shit you can imagine "primitive humanoids living in caves" but ok.

      They are not especially close genealogically, but they are socially quite connected as colonized first peoples

      UM, okay. aboriginal society and african society are close enough that you can caricaturize them as "green stone tool people in caves" :bruh-moment: i've heard all kinds of racist cracker shit but that's new to me

      And suddenly the question is just the squinting part,

      my question is why you identify societies across the world that have literally nothing to do with each other (except "being colonized" I guess?) as being close enough that they can be portrayed as green cave living rapists and that these goblins are an intentional mockery of these ethnicities and societies, because that is wild

      You can look at Dr. Stone

      i'm surprised you can look at doctor stone with all its underaged panty shots and sexualization, more problematic than "the existence of goblins" imo

      • GarbageShoot [he/him]
        ·
        2 years ago

        And now you've resorted 100% to miserable deflection, calling me racist for talking about racial caricatures and so on. This is such a pathetic behavior, especially if you were the person who was caping for this shit last time.

        • GorbinOutOverHere [comrade/them]
          ·
          2 years ago

          i like how this started from iirc me saying "I like the intersection of real world physics with magic bullshit" and you saying it doesn't even do that well, you could have talked about better anime that do that instead

          calling me racist for talking about racial caricatures

          the negation of disparate peoples into one that you are weirdly identifying with "green cave dwelling primitive rapists" while insisting that depiction is JUST as racist as harry potter goblins is kinda racist imo, especially the latter bit because harry potter goblins are literally a 1:1 recreation of racist tropes no stretch needed and saying goblin slayer is "just as bad" imo diminishes that anti semitism

          • GarbageShoot [he/him]
            ·
            2 years ago

            the negation of disparate peoples into one that you are weirdly identifying with “green cave dwelling primitive rapists” while insisting that depiction is JUST as racist as harry potter goblins is kinda racist imo, especially the latter bit because harry potter goblins are literally a 1:1 recreation of racist tropes no stretch needed and saying goblin slayer is “just as bad” imo diminishes that anti semitism

            First of all, fuck off. Secondly, you are unsurprisingly wildly ignorant about what a racial caricature is if you think this is a tenable line of logic. Racial caricatures are things constructed by racists, not properties of the groups they purport to represent. The three groups I mentioned were all victims of British colonization, portrayed by those British settlers in this way (and, importantly, this was all transmitted back to Britain itself, see e.g. the racism of Darwin), and have very similar stereotypes that survive into the modern day because of that very legacy. Dividing the world into "us," "maybe some other Euros," and "the savages" was a huge part of Britain's characterization of the world!

            You would struggle to make the GS Goblins more on the nose in terms of their behavior than what we see already. Basically the only way it could be done is by having goblin slaves so you could demonstrate them being lazy in chains and unable to cope with freedom.

            I looked it up because I forgot if I was conflating it with the Trolls from Berserk and, in GS, it turns out:

            Goblins are an all-male species, but possess the ability to breed with any race with the pregnancy always resulting in goblin children.

            We've even got some fucking miscegenation shit with the corrupting influence of savage blood overriding the heredity of the fairer race!

            Wild how this species exists just to rape and murder (and, lacking any females and any ability to relate to other species, can only reproduce by rape) so that the more technologically advanced, light-skinned, Euro-coded humans can be completely justified in eradicating them. Couldn't we have, like, just the murder and not the eroticized rape? Nope! Maybe more representation on the human side to -- no, nope, I'm being told that the curtains are blue.

            • GorbinOutOverHere [comrade/them]
              ·
              2 years ago

              First of all, fuck off

              you first

              portrayed by those British settlers in this way (

              not even in the wildest racism have I ever seen the peoples of 3 different continents uniformly portrayed as "green skinned goblins living in caves who rape people" but ok chief

              I looked it up because I forgot if I was conflating it with the Trolls from Berserk and, in GS, it turns out:

              yeah it's the same in berserk, which is honestly even worse much more frequently but strangely tolerated by the ol hexbear anime experts (tm) huh

              Wild how this species exists just to rape and murder (and, lacking any females and any ability to relate to other species, can only reproduce by rape) so that the more technologically advanced, light-skinned, Euro-coded humans can be completely justified in eradicating them.

              wild how goblin slayer is a series about slaying goblins and uses some kind of conceit to make it okay

              y'all act like they're drawn like the fucking cockroaches in terraformars like your reaction is wild

              • GarbageShoot [he/him]
                ·
                2 years ago

                yeah it’s the same in berserk, which is honestly even worse much more frequently but strangely tolerated by the ol hexbear anime experts ™ huh

                Oh no, it must be so hard when people are intolerant of uwu smol bean anime fans like you because they want to offer criticism of an anime. I'd offer you a hug if you were here, maybe some warm milk and a blanket. I can't imagine what it must be like to be the most downtrodden minority, the anime fan, when those uppity ethnic people tell you such violent, hateful things like "Hey, this anime's monsters are similar to how my people have been depicted and I don't think that should be taken so lightly".

                I welcome you to criticize Berserk, have at it! That's not my fucking point (or CriticalOtaku's) because I'm not telling you what to like or not like (nor were they). You're the one obsessed with moralizing, I just think we should call a spade a spade instead of pretending it's something else, while you sit here fucking gaslighting people so that you don't feel like anyone gives you funny looks for liking your eroticized rape with fake physics.

                  • GarbageShoot [he/him]
                    ·
                    2 years ago

                    Oh, I'm sorry, I forgot that you can't read more than three sentences at a time unless it's explaining why the repeated use of rape in a story is actually progressive and necessary.

          • GarbageShoot [he/him]
            ·
            2 years ago

            i like how this started from iirc me saying “I like the intersection of real world physics with magic bullshit” and you saying it doesn’t even do that well, you could have talked about better anime that do that instead

            I like how that bit about physics leads you to spend hours screaming that the curtains are blue and calling people who disagree with you racist. Sorry, that's not true, I don't like that.

            I've been told .hack does that stuff well. Ironically, Dr. Stone sometimes also does. Hunter x Hunter has its moments.

            Baki (and martial arts manga in general) do what I would argue is a more self-aware version of this by taking a "story" about how something in physics works and then having someone "master" using the interaction in order to weaponize it. Most times when physics is used in an action manga, especially ones with flimsy writing like Goblin Slayer, are based on using a very selective understanding of whatever the "physics" is that it evokes to look clever when it may as well just be making something up.

              • GarbageShoot [he/him]
                ·
                2 years ago

                Wow, so I do talk about the subject you request and you ignore it. Who could have guessed you were just concern trolling :blob-no-thoughts:

                • GorbinOutOverHere [comrade/them]
                  ·
                  2 years ago

                  I said you could have talked about it like hours ago when I would have given a shit instead of after I felt annoyed by this all day

                  • GarbageShoot [he/him]
                    ·
                    2 years ago

                    You poor thing, maybe if you just dropped the subject instead of arguing in obvious bad faith for hours this could have been avoided! No, it must be the fault of those nerds