We can communicate halfway across the planet very easily. Most of these people would happily take a long flight for a vacation. Not weighing in rn on whether or not they should fly to Iraq et al. to ask for forgiveness. But acting like most don't have the means or physical ability is factually wrong.
I meant in the case of poor and/or homeless veterans. If someone who can afford to travel confessed, I do not think anyone would do anything to them, or even listen to a confession in the first place.
You don't have to travel to communicate with people halfway around the world.
Your statement was "can't seek forgiveness". You've changed this to be "can't travel to confess" or victims would not "listen to them in the first place."
The former is very different from the latter. They can seek forgiveness even if they can't travel there. They can seek it even if the victims wouldn't care.
I'm not sure "seeking forgiveness" is the best framing. But its good for people to recognize the evil they've done and its good for them acknowledge that evil to their victims. Acting like they can't or shouldn't bother trying doesn't make sense.
I apologize for changing the topic of conversation. I meant the second sentence primarily as another criticism of the general message of the original post, not a defense of my own original position.
the question that is implied there is what do you do if they don't forgive you and make it clear they never will and want you to stop trying. Because the uncomfortable implication is that you are then locked in to your bad behavior and might as well keep going
seeking victim forgiveness is an important step in recoverying from a harmful habit or state of being but ultimately I think there needs to be forgiveness both internal and societal regardless of what the victim has to say for the simple reason that there needs to be a way out or people won't even try to stop on the basis that there isn't anything on the other side anymore
that is true but I was also speaking more generally about wrongdoing
it is easy for an imperialist society to forgive its own killers but what else are we going to do with them. If we killed or imprisoned them it wouldn't undo their crimes.
I was recently asked to support Ukraine on the basis of what if your mother was killed by a Russian shell wouldn't you want the Russians dead and I think it's kind harsh but we can't make decisions on that basis or we just end up covered in blood.
Sometimes the damage a person or society has caused is more than they can undo or fix and the question at that point is what do you want from them. They should fix it but are clearly incapable of doing so so now what
this seems weird because they literally can't seek forgiveness from their victims, because they're halfway across the planet most of the time
I don't think this objection makes sense.
We can communicate halfway across the planet very easily. Most of these people would happily take a long flight for a vacation. Not weighing in rn on whether or not they should fly to Iraq et al. to ask for forgiveness. But acting like most don't have the means or physical ability is factually wrong.
I meant in the case of poor and/or homeless veterans. If someone who can afford to travel confessed, I do not think anyone would do anything to them, or even listen to a confession in the first place.
You don't have to travel to communicate with people halfway around the world.
Your statement was "can't seek forgiveness". You've changed this to be "can't travel to confess" or victims would not "listen to them in the first place."
The former is very different from the latter. They can seek forgiveness even if they can't travel there. They can seek it even if the victims wouldn't care.
I'm not sure "seeking forgiveness" is the best framing. But its good for people to recognize the evil they've done and its good for them acknowledge that evil to their victims. Acting like they can't or shouldn't bother trying doesn't make sense.
I apologize for changing the topic of conversation. I meant the second sentence primarily as another criticism of the general message of the original post, not a defense of my own original position.
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the question that is implied there is what do you do if they don't forgive you and make it clear they never will and want you to stop trying. Because the uncomfortable implication is that you are then locked in to your bad behavior and might as well keep going
seeking victim forgiveness is an important step in recoverying from a harmful habit or state of being but ultimately I think there needs to be forgiveness both internal and societal regardless of what the victim has to say for the simple reason that there needs to be a way out or people won't even try to stop on the basis that there isn't anything on the other side anymore
Its not difficult for an imperialist society to forgive its own hitmen.
I think this kind of thinking falls apart when the crimes go from national to international.
that is true but I was also speaking more generally about wrongdoing
it is easy for an imperialist society to forgive its own killers but what else are we going to do with them. If we killed or imprisoned them it wouldn't undo their crimes.
I was recently asked to support Ukraine on the basis of what if your mother was killed by a Russian shell wouldn't you want the Russians dead and I think it's kind harsh but we can't make decisions on that basis or we just end up covered in blood.
Sometimes the damage a person or society has caused is more than they can undo or fix and the question at that point is what do you want from them. They should fix it but are clearly incapable of doing so so now what
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