I'm still so pissed off that no politicians challenge the Afghanistan withdrawal propaganda. The USA strategy from day 1 was regime change and nation building. We followed that strategy for 20 godamn years. Turns out both areas were monumental failures exposed by the withdrawal. GOP politicians that voted for these wars and propped this up get absolutely no blame when the "Afghanistan was a failure" conversation comes up. Like no challenge from a single democrat saying "your plan failed" or "GOP strategy created this". It's maddening.
Not so much GOP as DC consensus. When you get into it, the R's and D's don't disagree on much. They play baseball together, the snarling and slavering is just for show.
I still don't know how whoever controls Biden got a withdrawal. I guess it'll be another decade or two before we find out. They were planning on occupying Afghanistan for another 50 years.
They were basically forced out of Afghanistan, the withdrawal negotiated with the Taliban was in lieu of being embarrassed even worse by the Taliban forcibly removing the US troops themselves, with the only alternative to that being a massive increase in the number of US troops which would have not had any buy in from the American public. They lost the war, similarly to how they lost the war in Vietnam, and the idea that they were somehow winning but just decided to leave is just cope. The Afghanistan papers showing that the Pentagon knew the war was unwinnable and had been lying about it being anything else came out years ago.
It wasn't winnable but it was certainly continuable. The Taliban were never going to forcibly evict the Americans. They had been in that situation for two decades, what's another five?
Whoever forced the the Americans to withdraw was in DC, not anywhere in Afghanistan.
The taliban were never going to forcibly evict the Americans
Yes they were.
They had been in that situation for two decades
The situation changed continuously over two decades with varying levels of US troops and Taliban fighters, the latter had grown considerably in the last couple years, and the only way for America to maintain a presence on the ground in the face of that would have been to commit significantly more troops of their own once again. You're Joe Biden and you're faced with leaving Afghanistan and thus being the president that finally ends the unpopular forever war and brings the troops home, or doubling down and sending more Americans to Afghanistan. You're going to be running for reelection in a couple years, what do you do?
Trump admin is the one that reached the agreement with the Taliban for withdrawal. When he did so there were 13,000 US troops there and by the time Biden took office there were like 2,500. Biden admin has indeed pointed the finger at his predecessor for the sloppy withdrawal. So essentially, you would have done exactly what Biden did in this situation. So what's the mystery?
Typical cracker yankee hubris and rhetoric. Of course our "high tech" white troops can hold out forever against the "illiterate" brown hordes, it doesn't matter that they're outnumbered nearly 20:1! One of our boys is worth easily 30 of theirs!
Apparently not. Apparently you've followed it since the invasion but don't realize that there were up to 100,000 American troops at points before handing over the baton progressively to the Afghan government which was so lacking in legitimacy that the Taliban numbers were growing massively again in the last few years and controlled the country within weeks of US withdrawal. So somehow the handful of US troops could have just stayed for as long as they wanted without once again committing far more troops, despite the large and growing resistance to their presence.
controlled the country within weeks of US withdrawal.
Again, the decision to withdraw was made in DC and not in Afghanistan. We don't know why, and probably won't for some time, but "forced out by the Taliban at the point of a bayonet" wasn't it.
The generals and the DC blob were furious. They were adamant that the situation was fine and they could have maintained occupation for another 50 years. Those are the accounts that I read; maybe you can contribute some that said the Taliban have militarily defeated us and we must withdraw before there's a wholesale loss of tens of thousands of soldiers like it's Berlin 1945 or something.
There couldn't have been a loss of tens of thousands of soldiers because there weren't even that many there. That's exactly what I'm saying, there was absolutely no way of staying WITHOUT MASSIVELY INCREASING THE AMOUNT OF TROOPS.
How the fuck are you still not getting it?
They were adamant that the situation was fine and they could have maintained occupation for another 50 years.
And the entire point of the the Afghanistan papers is that even the exact same people who made these sorts of statements publicly years ago, were saying privately that the war was unwinnable. Inevitable loss.
Yes, they were forced out. The insurgency was strong and growing, there was no way to stay without massively increasing troop numbers. America lost a war once again to a bunch of farmers I'm so sorry that this hurts your chauvinist pride.
No, they wouldn't have, they could have set up permanent military bases and stayed for as long as they wanted if they had won. But they didn't, they lost.
They would have had to increase the number of troops to stay any longer, that's the answer to your question about why they didn't. Ramping up the war again after years of promising to end it was not worth it in any sense politically or militarily. The military industrial complex can be fed while doing something that at least has a chance of achieving other national interests, as in Ukraine or Taiwan or whatever.
The war in Afghanistan was lost, the US failed to accomplish it's objectives and eventually quit while it was behind.
I’m still so pissed off that no politicians challenge the Afghanistan withdrawal propaganda
Because they all voted for it? They all voted for every increase in military spending and for every time congress needed to authorize something. Also, the moment some politician speaks out, their opponents will just attack back with “you don’t love America and our brave troops!? Maybe you should move to China!” or whatever. And being accused on not being sufficiently patriotic is like the worst fear of every US politician.
I'm still so pissed off that no politicians challenge the Afghanistan withdrawal propaganda. The USA strategy from day 1 was regime change and nation building. We followed that strategy for 20 godamn years. Turns out both areas were monumental failures exposed by the withdrawal. GOP politicians that voted for these wars and propped this up get absolutely no blame when the "Afghanistan was a failure" conversation comes up. Like no challenge from a single democrat saying "your plan failed" or "GOP strategy created this". It's maddening.
Not so much GOP as DC consensus. When you get into it, the R's and D's don't disagree on much. They play baseball together, the snarling and slavering is just for show.
I still don't know how whoever controls Biden got a withdrawal. I guess it'll be another decade or two before we find out. They were planning on occupying Afghanistan for another 50 years.
They were basically forced out of Afghanistan, the withdrawal negotiated with the Taliban was in lieu of being embarrassed even worse by the Taliban forcibly removing the US troops themselves, with the only alternative to that being a massive increase in the number of US troops which would have not had any buy in from the American public. They lost the war, similarly to how they lost the war in Vietnam, and the idea that they were somehow winning but just decided to leave is just cope. The Afghanistan papers showing that the Pentagon knew the war was unwinnable and had been lying about it being anything else came out years ago.
Who said they ever wanted to win?
It wasn't winnable but it was certainly continuable. The Taliban were never going to forcibly evict the Americans. They had been in that situation for two decades, what's another five?
Whoever forced the the Americans to withdraw was in DC, not anywhere in Afghanistan.
Yes they were.
The situation changed continuously over two decades with varying levels of US troops and Taliban fighters, the latter had grown considerably in the last couple years, and the only way for America to maintain a presence on the ground in the face of that would have been to commit significantly more troops of their own once again. You're Joe Biden and you're faced with leaving Afghanistan and thus being the president that finally ends the unpopular forever war and brings the troops home, or doubling down and sending more Americans to Afghanistan. You're going to be running for reelection in a couple years, what do you do?
First I've ever heard of it, and I've followed it on and off since the invasion.
I would have let Trump take the blame, since he was so adamant about ending wars by forcing America (DC) to lose them.
Trump admin is the one that reached the agreement with the Taliban for withdrawal. When he did so there were 13,000 US troops there and by the time Biden took office there were like 2,500. Biden admin has indeed pointed the finger at his predecessor for the sloppy withdrawal. So essentially, you would have done exactly what Biden did in this situation. So what's the mystery?
This novel idea that the Taliban were about to evict the US from the country. Wasn't going to happen without a plan out of DC.
OK I guess the 13,000 US troops were going to hold out for 50 years against 200,000 Taliban or something
Removed by mod
Typical cracker yankee hubris and rhetoric. Of course our "high tech" white troops can hold out forever against the "illiterate" brown hordes, it doesn't matter that they're outnumbered nearly 20:1! One of our boys is worth easily 30 of theirs!
Death to America
Why not? Because they couldn't. The options were get out entirely or commit a much larger number of troops.
Uh-huh. I would have heard about that. I don't suppose you can supply some sources on this from the DC blob.
Read the Afghanistan papers.
Apparently not. Apparently you've followed it since the invasion but don't realize that there were up to 100,000 American troops at points before handing over the baton progressively to the Afghan government which was so lacking in legitimacy that the Taliban numbers were growing massively again in the last few years and controlled the country within weeks of US withdrawal. So somehow the handful of US troops could have just stayed for as long as they wanted without once again committing far more troops, despite the large and growing resistance to their presence.
Edit: I misquoted you so editing to correct that.
Again, the decision to withdraw was made in DC and not in Afghanistan. We don't know why, and probably won't for some time, but "forced out by the Taliban at the point of a bayonet" wasn't it.
The generals and the DC blob were furious. They were adamant that the situation was fine and they could have maintained occupation for another 50 years. Those are the accounts that I read; maybe you can contribute some that said the Taliban have militarily defeated us and we must withdraw before there's a wholesale loss of tens of thousands of soldiers like it's Berlin 1945 or something.
There couldn't have been a loss of tens of thousands of soldiers because there weren't even that many there. That's exactly what I'm saying, there was absolutely no way of staying WITHOUT MASSIVELY INCREASING THE AMOUNT OF TROOPS.
How the fuck are you still not getting it?
And the entire point of the the Afghanistan papers is that even the exact same people who made these sorts of statements publicly years ago, were saying privately that the war was unwinnable. Inevitable loss.
Yes, they were forced out. The insurgency was strong and growing, there was no way to stay without massively increasing troop numbers. America lost a war once again to a bunch of farmers I'm so sorry that this hurts your chauvinist pride.
You're arguing against something I didn't say. The war wasn't to be won. It was to be continued. Forever. If they won they'd have to leave.
OK I am done with someone who is deliberately distorting and misstating what I'm saying.
No, they wouldn't have, they could have set up permanent military bases and stayed for as long as they wanted if they had won. But they didn't, they lost.
They would have had to increase the number of troops to stay any longer, that's the answer to your question about why they didn't. Ramping up the war again after years of promising to end it was not worth it in any sense politically or militarily. The military industrial complex can be fed while doing something that at least has a chance of achieving other national interests, as in Ukraine or Taiwan or whatever.
The war in Afghanistan was lost, the US failed to accomplish it's objectives and eventually quit while it was behind.
Because they all voted for it? They all voted for every increase in military spending and for every time congress needed to authorize something. Also, the moment some politician speaks out, their opponents will just attack back with “you don’t love America and our brave troops!? Maybe you should move to China!” or whatever. And being accused on not being sufficiently patriotic is like the worst fear of every US politician.