And it feels just wholey wrong to say “gender dysphoria is internalized misogyny” but I can’t put my finger on why. Or how they’re linked or if they’re not.

Because the individual component parts of gender dysphoria, the little needles from this or that feature or action or idea, aren't in and of themselves unique to the trans experience. I've argued this before, but I firmly believe that a big part of what gender is neurologically is more of a filter on socialization and development of self-image than a hard setting, like it's grabbing bits of culture you're exposed to and saying "this image/role is for me" or "this image/role is not for me" based on context and layering that down to form one's own perception of oneself and one's gender.

That means that functionally cis people also experience elements of gender dysphoria when dealing with things they've internalized as being "wrong" for their own gender, it's just they experience fewer of these and with less intensity than trans people do.

It also means that gender in terms of culture is both constructed but also real: it's a malleable and learned collection of concepts and images, but one which we necessarily internalize and form into less malleable structures in our own minds. We exist within the cultural context that we were raised in and have limited ability to drastically change it, especially as individuals, so as I see it our priority should be mitigating the most harmful elements of it and liberating ourselves from it insofar as we can, but accepting that it has left its mark on us in an indelible way and understanding that we are still existing in a society hegemonically dominated by that same toxic cisheteronormative patriarchal culture.

Like we can say "things should be better! we must abolish all these old ideals and aesthetics as gendered things and so liberate everyone to develop on their own and take their own path!" but that's not the reality we have to work with, we cannot simply declare gender to be fake and dismiss all the things we've internalized in one fell swoop because even if we materially had the power to make that the new cultural hegemony overnight it's not how our brains work regardless. All we can really do is focus on LGBT and women's rights as policy and as individuals work on gradually shifting the internalized things that bother us the most (if we even want to - I have absolutely no desire to disentangle having long hair from my gender identity even if it's pathological how traumatic I find having it cut even slightly, for example).

I don't think a list of things that make you uncomfortable is a good description of what gender dysphoria like. It's more like this weird speration from both your own body and reality, maybe like you're watching yourself do everything in 3rd person and it's boring. I can think of plenty of masculine features of my body that make me feel shitty, but dysphoria is more than the sum of them.

Also your post seems to imply that any problem a cis woman had with her body is due to internalized patriarchy. But why? Can't somebody innately want their body to be one way, and feel uncomfortable if it is a different way, without that being the result of a social hierarchy?

Also also, suppose gender dysphoria was internalized misogyny. I don't think that actually matters. Lots of people, including cis women, have internalized patriarchy, and act a certain way as a result. It's clearly a double standard to obsess about trans people potentially doing that. Like I'm not going to wait around waiting for patriarchy to disappear so I can find out if that makes me stop being trans, because I would be waiting for a long, long time.

Read "whipping girl" Julia Serano or like, any queer theory that strikes your fancy

Ah, cissies and trying to wrap their heads around things they'll never understand about trans people (that's "anything about trans people"), name a more iconic duo.

She's actually kinda close to getting it, but still a mile off. Yes, the hatred of cis women for their bodies is in many ways similar to the gender incongruence experienced by trans women. But firstly, the scale at which trans women experience this, especially when they're untransitioned, is wholly different. Because the incongruence between gender identity and phenotype is normally much higher than in cis women. Most girls don't have visible five o'clock shadow on their entire face or pronounced back hair. If they do, it's my opinion that they should get the same gender affirming care that trans women need, and yes, ofc that should be free. No woman should be forced to have visible stubble on her face, no woman should have to pay out of pocket for laser hair removal to fix that.

More importantly than the visible problems, most girls are not forced to operate on male testosterone and estradiole levels, which is absolutely unbearable when you're a woman. Even menopausal cis women do not reach that hormonal makeup, and when they come anywhere even remotely close, guess what, that's what HRT was originally developed for. And from personal experience, i can confirm that just being on HRT, even when you do not have any visible changes yet, is a massive relief when it comes to gender incongruence. Look at any online trans community, check out the posts that describe the most suffering, see how many of these users are still waiting for their endo appointment. Spoiler: It's most. It's the freshly cracked eggs and the kids stuck in transphobic homes and the people on waiting lists in gatekeepy parts of the world that write the majority of this stuff. Because they lack the most vital, most basic gender affirming care and go through things no cis girl is forced to go through.

Regarding the "internalized mysogyny" thing, internalized mysogyny usually results in at least some degree of body dysmorphia. There is no realistic perception of one's physical traits anymore. This does not apply to trans women experiencing gender incongruence. I wouldn't mind a gf with my genitalia. Honestly, i'd eat her out all day long. Objectively speaking, my girldick is pretty damn hot. I just don't think these parts should be in that arrangement when it comes to my own body, it would work better if it got turned inside out and start a new life as my clit, labia minora and vaginal walls. And if a cis woman would wake up one morning with a penis and scrotum instead of a vulva and vagina, she'd probably have similar feelings. Sure, some would find it amazing, just as there's trans girls who love their princess wand and keep it (and that's fine, girls with dicks are not only valid, they have the best dicks in the entire world), but most would want to have that fixed at some point because it's just not hown they see themselves. That stuff just shouldn't dangle there. That tissue feels as if it's supposed to be configured differently. I don't hate it, but in the end it's nothing but raw material for my pussy. BTW women with internalized mysogyny frequently hate their pussies so much they don't even want to see them. Just saying.

Finally, internalized mysogyny and the resulting body dysmorphia constantly target things that i just don't give a fuck about. See anorexia. Yes, i'd like a more feminine fat distribution, sure, but i don't mind being a curvy girl. I don't mind having cellulite, in fact i think it would give me euphoria if i had more of it. I'd love to have rolls of fat instead of a potbelly. I wouldn't mind more stretch marks, either A hyperfeminine physique is actually pretty far from the "pre-teen boy with tits and ass" shape our society glorifies as the ideal female form, just look at all these neolithic thicc girls, they're feminine as hell. An extremely womanly body encompasses a ton of things that are coded as unattractive in our society, and if i could chose between getting these stigmatized traits or free FFS, i'd seriously have to sit down and think about it. I honestly don't care if i get to be a pretty girl or not, i don't mind if people read me as "that ugly, fat old dyke over there", that's a thousand times better than being read as "that hot twink in drag over there". This isn't about beauty standards, it's about having a body that represents who i am.

All of that said, yes, ofc trans women aren't immune to internalized mysogyny. In fact, it can be comorbid with gender incongruence and that can have really nasty consequences. Our society judges women by how hot we are, ait always does that, and that intersects with which trans women are deemed to at least be eligible for some degree of humane treatment - it's the hot ones. And hot in this case means "as cis-like as possible". Which is something we need to fight. Trans bodies are beautiful, both the conventionally attractive ones and the ones that fall outside of these rigid standards, the ones where you can still see where she's coming from, the ones that physically tell the story that maleness is curable. Trans girls with obvious tells can be hot as fuck. I love to look up to tall trans girls, i love to hold your big, soft hands, i want you to whisper into my ear with that smoky voice of yours. You're amazing, you're loved here. I just need to say that. A lot of tgirls confuse "passing 100%" with "being conventionally attractive" and that's definitely a source of unneccessary suffering. The cure for gender incongruence is medically transitioning, but the cure for still not feeling comfortable in your skin after that is self acceptance. I don't think any trans woman can be happy without being a feminist and freeing herself from the cultural baggage that patriarchy heaps upon the backs of women.

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