Title, I'm a leftist but after reading some things on lemmygrad and here it seems I might have been lied to all my life. I have talked with some people from Cuba and Venezuela (expats) that support the west narrative about poverty and mismanagement. I "believe" that Russia is attacking Ukraine for selfish reasons and that China censors access to foreign information using the Great Firewall, please prove me wrong. Furthermore, it ultimately depends who do you want to believe or there are hard facts from reputable sources that are simply a hidden by the mass media?

EDIT: Thanks everyone for your very civil responses. I'll answer as many as I can!

  • notceps [he/him]
    ·
    edit-2
    1 year ago

    As one of the news mega sickos, I don't think anyone disputes that Russia is attacking Ukraine for 'selfish reasons' but that word does a lot of lifting here and of course is just sitting there without context.

    After the fall of the Soviet Union NATO didn't disband although the organisation was initially formed to be a counter to the SU, in fact NATO actually expands by several countries and slowly inches closer and closer towards Russia, which isn't allowed to join so is very clearly the new target of the alliance. Putin shores up some neighboring countries because he doesn't Russia to border NATO, he makes that clear after George Bush talks about adding Georgia to NATO by attacking Ossetia. That is his red line.

    2014 comes around and you have Euromaidan, Right Sector a nazi party are the biggest and most effective part of that whole thing, the former president who was somewhat agreeable with Putin is gone and a hardline anti-Russia president gets pushes through several policies targeted at ethnic russians. Luhansk and Donetsk declare themselves independent and a bloody civil war begins that Nazis use to form paramilitaries and gain more and more power. During the next 8 years there's constant conflict even though several attempts are made with Minsk I and Minsk II but they are not followed. Around the start of the War Putin is convinced that the USA wants to add Ukraine to NATO, the one red line he has, maybe he believes that the democrats want to get 'revenge' for Trump or that the USA has been working towards integrating Ukraine into NATO for quite some time who knows. But looking back after comments made by politicians like Angela Merkel saying that the Minsk agreement was made to buy Ukraine more time for this exact moment and how quickly the west was able to supply Ukraine with weapons and able to provide several logistics points nearby Ukraine for this whole thing. Putin seems to have been right.

    After meandering back to the whole selfishness thing, Russia is selfish for going "I want security and I will kill for it" BUT I don't think it's unreasonable the USA and the west at large knew what they were doing this war largely is on them and the blood is on Zelensky, Boris Johnson and Bidens hands much more than Putin who at several points wanted to negotiate over and over again. And all of this is done to fucking sell some tanks, rockets and whatever other overpriced shit the USA is producing, again the 'aid' the USA has provided to Ukraine is around 110bn USD probably more since I havent' checked in a bit, that money could've solved world hunger for 3 years instead it goes to some CEO of Raytheon so he can buy another house.

    If I punch you because you slowly approach me with your arms swinging that's on you and that's how I view this conflict in just one sentence.

    • geikei [none/use name]
      ·
      1 year ago

      Regarding the Euromaiden and Donbass stuff and the crucial role of fascist groups in them you can even find peer reviewd western academic analysis from before the war attesting to that

      https://www.academia.edu/28203585/The_Far_Right_in_Ukraine_During_the_Euromaidan_and_the_War_in_Donbas

      • kristina [she/her]
        ·
        1 year ago

        I hope every fascist on the Ukraine side kills every fascist on the Russian side and vice versa, preferably as simultaneously and instantly as possible :gigachad:

    • marderbot [none/use name]
      hexagon
      ·
      1 year ago

      That's a really good metaphor, I'll need to research what you just wrote but it seems fair. The thing is that, if you read standard westerns sources they also seem fair, how to distinguish right from wrong?

      • macabrett
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        1 year ago

        Why would you uncritically believe the sources that riled up the public for the War on Terror? Why do they want you to care so much about the war in Ukraine vs any number of coups America has been involved in? Why did they all claim Russia blew up Nordstream with zero followup when it was uncovered that it was likely from the other side?

      • notceps [he/him]
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        1 year ago

        Get context, get ideological or tune out. There's not really a need to have position on everything as a leftist. I care about this because I've talked in person to Ukranians that have fled the war and have been devastated by it, I know quite a few ukranians and russians online as well so that's why I care more about it. On the other side I have almost no context on things going on in lets say south east asia so I'll let my ideology guide myself which is to side with pro-leftist stuff and being against american interests. If it's more complicated than that and I don't look at the context I don't think I should hold an opinion on it or speak on it.

        It's very understandable to not be too into the comments of the news mega section but 72T does great updates during the week there which are very informative so you could check that out to get a bit more context overall.

      • GarbageShoot [he/him]
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        1 year ago

        Do those sources ever even mention Euromaidan? Or the eight year Civil War that followed and led directly knto the invasion?

        In my experience, the latter is rare and the former (since the invasion) is unheard of.