I've been pro-Balkanization for a little while now. There are obvious downsides domestically but in the end I think just by breaking America's imperial vice grip on the world, it's a net positive.
And then when things like RBG dying happen, I'm just reminded about how awful our system is and how far it is from actual democracy. And it will never change unless by revolution or balkanization, because it serves the interest of capital as well as folks in small states, white people, etc. And frankly I think balkanization is much more realistic possibility than revolution.
Agree 100%. I needed Bernie to lose to finally shake me of any ideas I had of real change happening electorally. I'd like to think that was Bernie's final gift to us all - showing us that voting will never bring about the change that needs to happen.
I live in the EU, but was pro-Balkanization when Trump was first elected.
That said, if separatism takes hold in the USA, then I honestly expect the US military to become like the EU military, just a shared army, where they have some new effectively capitalist controlled governing body to decide where it is deployed.
Those are the only conditions under which I think the US military itself could agree to allow significant balkanization to occur. Most of the USA is not practically or psychologically prepared to do anything like civil war against the US military.
At this point I think many of the liberals could be overjoyed with a bloodless '"'revolution'"' of that kind.
It would let then have their cake (various rights in blue states) and eat it too (imperialism and white supremacy).
It is something the liberals (and perhaps even leftists) could want, but is certainly not what the capitalists or republicans want.
The only thing is, it would serve Republican interests for California or the entire West Coast to leave, similar to how Scotland leaving would cement Tory rule in the UK. But at the same time it would NOT serve the interests of capital, creating a rare rift in objectives between the Republican Party and the capital class.
it would serve Republican interests for California or the entire West Coast to leave,
Not it wouldn't. The Republicans already control the seats of power, and might well be able to maintain that.
The West Coast provides massive amounts of tax income, economic resources, and military personel that are also used by Republican majority states:
https://apnews.com/2f83c72de1bd440d92cdbc0d3b6bc08c/AP-FACT-CHECK:-Blue-high-tax-states-fund-red-low-tax-states
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnVPVd5YXnI
That is not to say this "blue states tend to subsidize red states" phenomenon is a bad thing, it simply follows from the fact that most of the richer people living in cities pay more taxes.
I don't disagree, you're probably right that at least in the short term, they have all the power anyway. And they'll rig it enough to keep that power in the long term. So I'll back offmy original point. But a different point... if the west coast wanted to leave, I can't imagine there would be the political will to actually start trying to physically force them back in. Now other measures to make west coast folks as uncomfortable as possible? Yeah, very possibly.
The other issue with Balkanization is that Flyover CHUDistan (the Dakotas, Nebraska, Montana, Utah, etc.) have most of the nuclear arsenal (well, ICBMs, anyway). And those who have played Fallout: New Vegas should have an idea of how the New California Republic is going to play out...
I've been pro-Balkanization for a little while now. There are obvious downsides domestically but in the end I think just by breaking America's imperial vice grip on the world, it's a net positive.
And then when things like RBG dying happen, I'm just reminded about how awful our system is and how far it is from actual democracy. And it will never change unless by revolution or balkanization, because it serves the interest of capital as well as folks in small states, white people, etc. And frankly I think balkanization is much more realistic possibility than revolution.
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Agree 100%. I needed Bernie to lose to finally shake me of any ideas I had of real change happening electorally. I'd like to think that was Bernie's final gift to us all - showing us that voting will never bring about the change that needs to happen.
deleted by creator
deleted by creator
I live in the EU, but was pro-Balkanization when Trump was first elected.
That said, if separatism takes hold in the USA, then I honestly expect the US military to become like the EU military, just a shared army, where they have some new effectively capitalist controlled governing body to decide where it is deployed.
Those are the only conditions under which I think the US military itself could agree to allow significant balkanization to occur. Most of the USA is not practically or psychologically prepared to do anything like civil war against the US military.
At this point I think many of the liberals could be overjoyed with a bloodless '"'revolution'"' of that kind.
It would let then have their cake (various rights in blue states) and eat it too (imperialism and white supremacy).
It is something the liberals (and perhaps even leftists) could want, but is certainly not what the capitalists or republicans want.
The only thing is, it would serve Republican interests for California or the entire West Coast to leave, similar to how Scotland leaving would cement Tory rule in the UK. But at the same time it would NOT serve the interests of capital, creating a rare rift in objectives between the Republican Party and the capital class.
Not it wouldn't. The Republicans already control the seats of power, and might well be able to maintain that.
The West Coast provides massive amounts of tax income, economic resources, and military personel that are also used by Republican majority states:
https://apnews.com/2f83c72de1bd440d92cdbc0d3b6bc08c/AP-FACT-CHECK:-Blue-high-tax-states-fund-red-low-tax-states
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnVPVd5YXnI
That is not to say this "blue states tend to subsidize red states" phenomenon is a bad thing, it simply follows from the fact that most of the richer people living in cities pay more taxes.
I don't disagree, you're probably right that at least in the short term, they have all the power anyway. And they'll rig it enough to keep that power in the long term. So I'll back offmy original point. But a different point... if the west coast wanted to leave, I can't imagine there would be the political will to actually start trying to physically force them back in. Now other measures to make west coast folks as uncomfortable as possible? Yeah, very possibly.
The other issue with Balkanization is that Flyover CHUDistan (the Dakotas, Nebraska, Montana, Utah, etc.) have most of the nuclear arsenal (well, ICBMs, anyway). And those who have played Fallout: New Vegas should have an idea of how the New California Republic is going to play out...