Like he'll yeah fuck the rich

      • anthropicprincipal [any]
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        4 years ago

        The idea of a revolutionary vanguard sounds like a bad, bad idea.

        Look at what the Bolsheviks did to the Mensheviks.

          • anthropicprincipal [any]
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            4 years ago

            The USSR failed because it did not tolerate any political pluralism, and lept from crisis to crisis based on the whims of personality cults.

            I guess if you like personality cults...

              • anthropicprincipal [any]
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                4 years ago

                Well, it is true.

                Doctrinaire politics reigned from on high in the USSR which forbade even alternative ideologies of communism.

                • newmou [he/him]
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                  4 years ago

                  A really great book that goes into this is Blackshirts and Reds by Michael Parenti btw. Breaks down a lot of things that simply didn’t work in the USSR. Definitely check it out

            • newmou [he/him]
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              4 years ago

              Side question — what sort of world would you like? Not presupposing anything, or leading a question. Actually asking—what kind of structure do you think is best based on what you think humans deserve/could do?

              • anthropicprincipal [any]
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                4 years ago

                We won't have any realistic solutions to international issues like climate change, wage/chattel slavery, and the protection of basic human rights until an international institution has the power to affect those changes.

                So the question is: How does humanity enact an international representative government?

                I wish I knew the answer to that.

                • newmou [he/him]
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                  4 years ago

                  Yeah I agree. Are there shortcomings of the Internationale you consider?

            • Civility [none/use name]
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              4 years ago

              The USSR failed because the US State department lead by Hillary Fucking Clinton succesfully couped them.

              If anything a more authoritarian power structure and less "political pluralism" could have seen it still going strong to this day and I say this as someone who is generally critical of vanguardism and socialist personality cults. The failure of the August Coup and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race.

              Much better examples of the dangers of power concentration and vaguardism are the Sino-Soviet split, which was at least in part driven by Mao and Kruschev's personal dislike of each other, and the terror tactics the Bolsheviks used in the late 1910s to establish dictatorships of the proletariat (from which they excluded peasants) in overwhelmingly peasant dominated areas.

              That being said, while there are valid criticisms to be made of the Bolshevik revolution and USSR policies, they were better for the world and the people of Russia than what came before them, what came after them, and 90% of other nation states that existed at the same time as them. While you can point to some things they maybe could have done better, it's hard to argue that they shouldn't have overthrown the Russian Empire, that they should have imitated the rapacious capitalist imperialist looting of the rest of the world the EU & USA wholeheartedly engaged in, or that it was a good thing the USSR capitulated into the neoliberal shock therapied protofash mafia disaster of a state that is modern Russia.

        • disco [any]
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          4 years ago

          That isn’t inherent in being a communist, and especially not in being a democratic socialist.

        • CyborgMarx [any, any]
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          4 years ago

          lol how are you gonna be a socdem who's against vanguards when one of the core concepts of social democracy is REPRESENTATIVE parties?

          Bruh you can't take a principled stance against vanguardism when your ideology is literally the capitalist liberal version of vanguardism, you got to at least be an anarchist to play that game

            • CyborgMarx [any, any]
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              4 years ago

              You don't know what a vanguard is then, ignorance while understandable in this context, is still not something to be proud of, you should take the time to learn instead of reflexively rejecting something because the capitalist zeitgeist tells you to

              • anthropicprincipal [any]
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                4 years ago

                Vanguard parties exclude all non-socialists.

                They are anti-democratic abortions.

                • CyborgMarx [any, any]
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                  4 years ago

                  Vanguard parties exclude only the supporters of capitalism just like Social democracy by definition excludes socialists and non-capitalists, again you can't have any convincing principled stance against the representative democracy of the working class when you literally stan for the representative democracy of capitalists

                  All your doing is revealing your class loyalty