What creates the situation where they "need" to do that, to get laid in the first place?
patriarchy. it's not about actual sexual fulfillment, it's about the unfulfilled societal expectation they have that they should have power over other people. they see/imagine men with that either in a glorified past or fictional perception of the present, and it causes them distress that they are not party to that. normal people not having sex might be disappointed or sad about it, they might even be upset at a specific person (these still do tie into patriarchy to an extent),
but what makes an incel is laying the blame on the entire body of society and supporting reactionary policies that will make it easier for them to live the dream of -owning- someone to have sex with. many of these people literally have sex it just doesn't count for them because it wasn't under a socially enforceable permanent basis like a traditional patriarchal marriage
many of these people literally have sex it just doesn't count for them because it wasn't under a socially enforceable permanent basis like a traditional patriarchal marriage
As someone who has spent a lot of time studying one of the larger incel communities and its offshoots, this is false. Several of them have had sex before but have no access to it anymore, and some might not count paying a prostitute, but a casual hookup or a girlfriend absolutely do count to the vast majority of them and most of them pine after it, though of course most have as their "ultimate" desire to have a wife for the reasons you describe.
patriarchy. it's not about actual sexual fulfillment, it's about the unfulfilled societal expectation they have that they should have power over other people.
I mean I agree with the point of origin, but I disagree with the nature of the expectation, and also I think the entire framework of what any of this even means.
I don't agree that Patriarchy is a system which necessarily privileges all men over all women, and exists to allow the former to exert power over the latter. It is a system which exists to safeguard & enforce the power of Patriarchs, which are a very specific kind of man, one which has access to property & social standing such that he is able to leverage both into power over all others. That's the core of the thing, from what I understand of history & the development of class society, and that's what defines how it functions.
In the case of how this relates to women, yeah it's very much like you said. The goal is to use wealth & social position to put women into a state of dependency, & to use that dependency to force them to serve the sexual desires of the patriarch in question. With regards to other men though; the goal is not actually to cooperate with them to gain power over women, not to any degree more than what he absolutely has to at any rate. No, the goal there, or the ideal situation is to also own the other men; to immiserate them, to force them to work solely to support him & his progeny, and to prevent them from being able to form their own families if for no other reason than pure spite.
You look at guys like Errol Musk, Epstein, the Billionaire Quiverfull freaks, and hell even most of the insane Alpha Influencer Grifters out there, and you tell me that they don't fundamentally think in that kind of fashion. That their goals aren't congruent with what I'm describing.
The ideal situation of Patriarchy is one rich bastard with land, in control of a harem of 100 wife-concubines, with 10,000 eunuchized slaves supporting all of them. That is actually as true today as it was in the bronze age. It just has to be abstracted a hell of a lot more through market forces, and the false choices presented by consumer society. Because if they didn't do that, then there might be a very good chance that they would end up in a situation with their heads on a block.
But yeah, this is what forms the basis of my thoughts about anything relating to this subject.
someone to have sex with. many of these people literally have sex it just doesn't count for them because it wasn't under a socially enforceable permanent basis like a traditional patriarchal marriage
I don't agree that Patriarchy is a system which necessarily privileges all men over all women, and exists to allow the former to exert power over the latter. It is a system which exists to safeguard & enforce the power of Patriarchs, which are a very specific kind of man
That's the issue. With the individualism and free market ideology of American capitalism, every man has the capability of seeing themselves as a patriarch.
The anger that violent male (primarily) incels have is derived directly from the contradiction that patriarchy only protects the patriarchs, and they believe themselves to be patriarchs. To them, in their mind, they're owed something for being a white man. When that belief comes head to head with the fact that they also have to interact with the wage labor system like the rest of us, and their primary social class isn't patriarch, but proletarian, they either resolve that contradiction by casting off their patriarchal beliefs, or doubling down on them.
patriarchy. it's not about actual sexual fulfillment, it's about the unfulfilled societal expectation they have that they should have power over other people. they see/imagine men with that either in a glorified past or fictional perception of the present, and it causes them distress that they are not party to that. normal people not having sex might be disappointed or sad about it, they might even be upset at a specific person (these still do tie into patriarchy to an extent),
but what makes an incel is laying the blame on the entire body of society and supporting reactionary policies that will make it easier for them to live the dream of -owning- someone to have sex with. many of these people literally have sex it just doesn't count for them because it wasn't under a socially enforceable permanent basis like a traditional patriarchal marriage
As someone who has spent a lot of time studying one of the larger incel communities and its offshoots, this is false. Several of them have had sex before but have no access to it anymore, and some might not count paying a prostitute, but a casual hookup or a girlfriend absolutely do count to the vast majority of them and most of them pine after it, though of course most have as their "ultimate" desire to have a wife for the reasons you describe.
I mean I agree with the point of origin, but I disagree with the nature of the expectation, and also I think the entire framework of what any of this even means.
I don't agree that Patriarchy is a system which necessarily privileges all men over all women, and exists to allow the former to exert power over the latter. It is a system which exists to safeguard & enforce the power of Patriarchs, which are a very specific kind of man, one which has access to property & social standing such that he is able to leverage both into power over all others. That's the core of the thing, from what I understand of history & the development of class society, and that's what defines how it functions.
In the case of how this relates to women, yeah it's very much like you said. The goal is to use wealth & social position to put women into a state of dependency, & to use that dependency to force them to serve the sexual desires of the patriarch in question. With regards to other men though; the goal is not actually to cooperate with them to gain power over women, not to any degree more than what he absolutely has to at any rate. No, the goal there, or the ideal situation is to also own the other men; to immiserate them, to force them to work solely to support him & his progeny, and to prevent them from being able to form their own families if for no other reason than pure spite.
You look at guys like Errol Musk, Epstein, the Billionaire Quiverfull freaks, and hell even most of the insane Alpha Influencer Grifters out there, and you tell me that they don't fundamentally think in that kind of fashion. That their goals aren't congruent with what I'm describing.
The ideal situation of Patriarchy is one rich bastard with land, in control of a harem of 100 wife-concubines, with 10,000 eunuchized slaves supporting all of them. That is actually as true today as it was in the bronze age. It just has to be abstracted a hell of a lot more through market forces, and the false choices presented by consumer society. Because if they didn't do that, then there might be a very good chance that they would end up in a situation with their heads on a block.
But yeah, this is what forms the basis of my thoughts about anything relating to this subject.
Well I don't, so there you are.
That's the issue. With the individualism and free market ideology of American capitalism, every man has the capability of seeing themselves as a patriarch.
The anger that violent male (primarily) incels have is derived directly from the contradiction that patriarchy only protects the patriarchs, and they believe themselves to be patriarchs. To them, in their mind, they're owed something for being a white man. When that belief comes head to head with the fact that they also have to interact with the wage labor system like the rest of us, and their primary social class isn't patriarch, but proletarian, they either resolve that contradiction by casting off their patriarchal beliefs, or doubling down on them.