• GarbageShoot [he/him]
    ·
    edit-2
    1 year ago

    Ten Chinese air force aircraft entered Taiwan's air defence zone . . . Of those aircraft, the ministry said 10 had either crossed the median line of the Taiwan Strait, which previously served as an unofficial barrier between the two sides, or entered the southwestern part of Taiwan's air defence identification zone, or ADIZ.

    For those unfamiliar with the Air Defense Identification Zone:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Defense_Identification_Zone_(Taiwan)

    Not only does it include a lot of water that isn't part of the Strait, right off of China's coast, it also includes a portion of Mainland China a few times larger than Taiwan itself.

    People like to talk like China is flying jets over Taipei City, but you can fly a plane from one city in Mainland China to another, only passing over land, and be in this zone. Mind you, I don't think Taiwan having this zone is bad -- countries generally should be aware of air traffic nearby -- but this is part of a long history of alarmist headlines by western media regarding what is often very uninteresting air traffic in the PRC.

      • GarbageShoot [he/him]
        ·
        1 year ago

        Yeah, obviously it's a glorified puppet state but there's no point in arguing from that standpoint here. If a country is to exist, it should know about local air traffic, that's all I'm saying.

        • ProxyTheAwesome [comrade/them]
          ·
          1 year ago

          It is not to exist. I don’t care about their air borders and I hope China flies wherever they please within Chinese territory like Chinese Taipei

          • GarbageShoot [he/him]
            ·
            1 year ago

            The PRC wants a peaceful reunification, which would not be aided by them continuously flying military jets over the island. I, too, would prefer peaceful reunification, which means some level of cooperation and tolerance is necessary.

            • ProxyTheAwesome [comrade/them]
              ·
              1 year ago

              It's going to require might and pressure and gunboat diplomacy, it's denial and liberalism to pretend colonialists just give up their holdings

              • GarbageShoot [he/him]
                ·
                edit-2
                1 year ago

                The RoC won't give up their holdings in the interest of human benefit, but liberalism shows us that there are countless ways to skin a cat. The RoC is not autarkic and is very dependent on its NATO friends and its trading partners. As the US wanes and third world nations stand up, the support for Taiwanese nationalism will surely dwindle, and RoC leadership may be put in a position where their best offer is clearly to reunify.

          • GarbageShoot [he/him]
            ·
            1 year ago

            I started writing out a timeline but I don't know what position you're asking from so I will say for the sake of brevity that the US kept the KMT from being run out of all of China so that the US could us the island as a threat against China -- as it also attempted to do in Korea when it had more-or-less complete control of the southern half. Taiwan spent about 40 years as a military dictatorship killing tens of thousands of dissidents, native Formosans, and others (this was called the "White Terror"), while their patron the US looked the other way while it pumped resources into the country (for the ruling class, mind you) to use the island as a sweatshop site in the interim. This legacy and its connections to fellow US puppet South Korea and US ally Japan go a long way to explaining its current capacity in manufacturing, which make up its other value to the US besides geographical position.

            Both Taiwan and SK have made various attempts to assert themselves (with some success in both cases), but with the pathetic diplomatic position of the former and the continued military occupation of the latter by the US, I think "puppet state" is a fair title for them, perhaps as much as Israel, but that's its own can of worms.

            I didn't really intend on getting into litigating this topic, but I'm happy to discuss it as best I can.

            • StalinForTime [comrade/them]
              ·
              1 year ago

              Not only did the US turn a blind eye to the White Terror, but they were positively gleeful about it, as a key target of it was of course not only indigeneous-politics based, but fundamentally anti-communist.

              Indeed a basic presupposition of the US providing you such extensive economic support, as a forward base in Asia against communism, is that you crush any opposition to its 'proper' functioning as such an economic and military asset. That supposes that you will crush any radical, labor, trade-union, let alone explicitly socialist or communist activity which appears to challenge the state.

            • randint@lemm.ee
              ·
              1 year ago

              I started writing out a timeline but I don't know what position you're asking from so I will say for the sake of brevity that the US kept the KMT from being run out of all of China [...] which make up its other value to the US besides geographical position.

              Yes, I know about its not-so-glorious past and the White Terror. Thousands of innocent civilians were killed. It was terrible. However, I must respectfully disagree with you on the "puppet state" part. I don't think that Taiwan is a puppet state. The US sponsoring Taiwan is a thing of the past. Neither is a pathetic diplomatic position a good reason for being a puppet state.

              • silent_water [she/her]
                ·
                1 year ago

                if US support dropped overnight, reunification with the mainland would become inevitable. it's a puppet state in the sense that it's propped up by the might of the US/NATO military.

              • GarbageShoot [he/him]
                ·
                edit-2
                1 year ago

                I didn't see this reply before. The other commenter has it right that the relevance of its pathetic diplomatic position is that it is being propped up by the US/NATO and ultimately depends on them to exist apart from the PRC, which makes it very difficult to oppose them. Incidentally, does the US not sponsor Taiwan? Even just recently there was this, which sure seems like sponsorship to me.

                • randint@lemm.ee
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  Apparently being sponsored by a foreign state is now counted as being a puppet state?

                  • GarbageShoot [he/him]
                    ·
                    1 year ago

                    That part was in response to you saying:

                    The US sponsoring Taiwan is a thing of the past

                    I could have formatted it better, but the rest was focused on the puppet part and then I prefaced the sponsorship part with "Incidentally" to indicate changing over to an adjacent subject.

          • AntiOutsideAktion [he/him]
            ·
            1 year ago

            Taiwan is a rump state of the despotism that existed before the Maoist revolution. When the government fled to the island, the US backed them up and prevented the revolution from purging them from power and uniting the whole country under one flag. They exist today as they are because of western intervention, and is therefore a puppet state. I disagree with 'glorified' considering it's taboo internationally to even call them a state.

      • Frank [he/him, he/him]
        ·
        1 year ago

        Taiwhat? I Thought it was called the Republic of China, and everyone's been telling me China bad!

        • Tankiedesantski [he/him]
          ·
          1 year ago

          Like asking yankoids what they want to do with "their land", the question is pointless and only serves to legitimize a faulty preposition.

          The ROC also still claims to be the legitimate government of all of China (plus Mongolia and a sizable chunk of Russia) so its not like they're just sitting there minding their own business either.

          • AssortedBiscuits [they/them]
            ·
            1 year ago

            The ROC also claims the South China Sea as its own and has build naval bases in there. Even the DPP doesn't want to give up those naval bases. So, it's the Republic of Taiwan to stick it to the Mainland commies, but "akctually, we're the Republic of China, and the South China Sea is part of Chinese naval waters, so we get to build as many naval bases as we want" to Vietnam and Indonesia.

            • Tankiedesantski [he/him]
              ·
              1 year ago

              It's schrodinger's China. Simultaneously an independent smol bean democracy and the only legitimate inheritor of a 4000 year old empire.

            • ElHexo
              ·
              edit-2
              3 months ago

              deleted by creator

          • randint@lemm.ee
            ·
            1 year ago

            Do you even know why the pro-independence party (DPP) lost so badly in the local election for mayors? Because the people were disappointed in what DPP had done with the economy, not because they didn't agree with the foreign policies DPP was pushing! (Please note that I'm not saying most people agree.) In local elections, people are going to choose whoever they believe would be the best for the city/county, not the one whose views on China they agree with.

            Additionally, if you look at the latest opinion poll for the presidental election next year, you'd be surprised to find out that the candidate from the pro-independence party is leading.

            Source: am Taiwanese

            ps. you made a typo in your comment. it was the 2022 local election, not 2020.

            • meth_dragon [none/use name]
              ·
              1 year ago

              Because the people were disappointed in what DPP had done with the economy

              inciting conflict with your biggest trading partner does tend to have negative effects on the economy

              • randint@lemm.ee
                ·
                1 year ago

                Well yeah I guess, but really it's more about the policies they had been pushing domesticlly

                • meth_dragon [none/use name]
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  i am sure the success or failure of those domestic policies were not in the least contingent on international political conditions. the economic policies of an island that imports 97% of its energy with a food self sufficiency rate of around 30% and exports accounting for 70% of gdp can in no way be considered to be overexposed or at risk to trade fluctuations and even if that were the case, i am sure that foreign policy would not play an outsize role in determining the magnitude or periodicity of said trade fluctuations.

          • oatscoop@midwest.social
            ·
            edit-2
            1 year ago

            Because a poll asking a direct question is a hell of a lot more accurate in gauging how the population feels about the issue.

            Political parties can lose elections for their stances/actions outside their main one -- which seems to have been the case per the actual person from Taiwan that responded to your comment. It doesn't matter what a party is called or what their main goals are if they're bad at their job.

            If and when the people of Taiwan decide they want reunification, it will happen. Thankfully Beijing isn't going to be allowed to force the issue.

              • randint@lemm.ee
                ·
                edit-2
                1 year ago

                The majority of Taiwanese people has always wanted to remain status quo, as indicated by the two triangle data lines in the plot. Since declaring independence is basically asking China to attack and that peaceful reunification is not desirable (for >90% of the population) either, the majority are of course pro-status quo. It does not line up with how DPP ate shit last year.

                • GarbageShoot [he/him]
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  peaceful reunification is not desirable (for >90% of the population)

                  Again, this was "forced" reunification in that poll, i.e. military takeover. Of course people oppose that. I think at least the plurality opinion is against peaceful reunification under the PRC too, but it's not by as high a margin.

            • randint@lemm.ee
              ·
              edit-2
              1 year ago

              Thank you for mentioning me. Makes me feel like not all people on this thread is pro-China. :D

      • panopticon [comrade/them]
        ·
        edit-2
        1 year ago

        So Chinese bots are on lemmy too now.

        Amazing how comfortable you are being racist on a public forum.

        Anyway, people should look at this map and take note of how far Taiwan's ADIZ extends into Fujian province of mainland China and the open ocean (which is the southwest corner the PRC's airplanes were supposedly encroaching on). These articles are obviously published to make China seem more aggressive than it really is. Meanwhile the US, with the most powerful navy in the world, parades its warships through the Taiwan strait, which for some reason is not seen as a threat or provocation. Also Taiwan claims the mainland as its own territory. Oh, poor little Taiwan. Lol, get off it.

          • ShimmeringKoi [comrade/them]
            ·
            1 year ago

            You are obviously pro-China (...). That makes you a Chinese bot.

            At long last, we've reached the molten core of psychotic liberal solipsism

          • DoiDoi [comrade/them, he/him]
            ·
            edit-2
            1 year ago

            "How am I being racist? I'm just assuming anyone who disagrees with me must be a certain ethnicity and/or bot."

            This really isn't too complicated. Stop using Chinese as a pejorative and "bot" as a thought terminating cliche. It prevents any meaningful discussion, and yes, it's also very racist.

            • RandAlThor@lemmy.ca
              hexagon
              ·
              1 year ago

              The term isn't being used as a pejorative. The term is being used as an adjective to a pro-chinese social media commentator. Mister Doi Doi with NO history in lemmy.

              • immuredanchorite [he/him, any]
                ·
                edit-2
                1 year ago

                The term isn't being used as a pejorative. The term is being used as an adjective to a pro-chinese social media commentator. Mister Doi Doi with NO history in lemmy.

                galaxy-brain
                Got'em. You should post hog

              • NoGodsNoMasters [they/them, she/her]
                ·
                1 year ago

                Mister Doi Doi with NO history in lemmy.

                Their account is two years old and has two years of history. Idk if that doesn't show up for you or something, but it is indeed there.

                Show

              • silent_water [she/her]
                ·
                1 year ago

                Chinese refers to the people who live there or who's families emigrated from there, not randos online who don't support the rabid NATO line. your racism is showing.

          • panopticon [comrade/them]
            ·
            edit-2
            1 year ago

            Sir or Ma'am, I am a US citizen of Chinese descent and I assure you that you are being a cracker, and you can stop any time.

            My bias is towards peace and against interfering in other countries' internal affairs. Taiwan is part of China, this was settled in 1972. It's only in recent years that the US has taken a hostile stance against the PRC since its peaceful economic rise has started to threaten US hegemony. This is not my fight, it's not your fight, it is the fight of the US ruling class—its political establishment and its financial oligarchs. China and the US should be allies, and we should be putting our combined labor into decarbonization, healing the ecosphere, reparations for the global south, and preparing communities for the effects of climate change.

            Also, my family immigrated from Hong Kong before it was released from British rule, so ~by your logic~ I should be against China, which I'm not, because I'm capable of critical thinking.

            Oh, and one more thing: countdown

          • Sasuke [comrade/them]
            ·
            1 year ago

            You are obviously pro-China . . . That makes you a Chinese bot.

            you, oh enlightened reddit-logo one, could you perhaps explain to us what the word 'bot' means?

          • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.ml
            ·
            1 year ago

            That's precisely the sort of argument one would expect from a NAFO bot. Hope you earned enough FICO credit points to buy food tonight.

        • randint@lemm.ee
          ·
          1 year ago

          Yes, the ADIZ includes part of China, but this article is mainly about jets crossing the median line of Taiwan Strait. Also I don't think Taiwan gets mad over any jets intruding the "overclaimed" part of the ADIZ.

          • ThereRisesARedStar [she/her, they/them]
            ·
            1 year ago

            but this article is mainly about jets crossing the median line of Taiwan Strait

            It says the jets did that OR were in the southwest zone. It is intentionally vague alarmism.

      • GarbageShoot [he/him]
        ·
        1 year ago

        I literally quoted the part that you just also quoted, which specifies that some of the craft were merely in the ADIZ, the one thing I was talking about in my comment

      • zephyrvs@lemmy.ml
        ·
        1 year ago

        I'm so tired of the notion that anyone not being in line with certain narratives is automatically considered a drone.

        • ShimmeringKoi [comrade/them]
          ·
          edit-2
          1 year ago

          Like 6ish years ago we all, liberals and leftists together, were creeped out by the right's sudden proliferation of "NPC" memes, correctly pointing out how dehumanizing it is and conjecturing darkly about what exactly this kind of rhetoric was priming these people for. Now, the overton window's so fucked that the we've normalized deploying the exact same invective against anyone who speaks up on behalf of humanity and against a US-dominated world. I've driven past the ruins of the Japanese concentration camps out in the miserable desert, and to know that so many people around me who act self-righteous but stand for nothing would rebuild those camps at the snap of a finger, or the running of an op-ed, or a scary news story....well, these people may haughtily object to being called blue MAGA, but that sure doesn't stop them from doing absolutely fucking everything they can to earn the label.

      • BelieveRevolt [he/him]
        ·
        edit-2
        1 year ago

        Everyone who disagrees with me must be a bot.

        I bet your response will contain one of more of the following: Winnie the Pooh, social credit, comrade, Uyghurs. Yet you call others bots, lmao.

      • immuredanchorite [he/him, any]
        ·
        edit-2
        1 year ago

        You both quoted the same exact piece of text. You said they didn't read the article but you didn't even bother to read their comment?

        You are calling a human being a bot, literally dehumanizing them, because they don't have the same hatred of China as you. You should really check yourself. You are full of hatred and ideological poison. It is clear from your comment that you have limited literacy skills and understanding, you should check out some other perspectives and try to broaden your horizons. Here is one. This is also another incredible resource with a lot of essays and information with a different perspective

          • booty [he/him]
            ·
            1 year ago

            the user you just replied to made their account a year ago and has an extensive post history

            • Frank [he/him, he/him]
              ·
              1 year ago

              No no never engage their statement on it's alleged merits. Kick them in the [redacted] and then ask them why they can't walk while laughing. It is the weirding way.

            • randint@lemm.ee
              ·
              edit-2
              1 year ago

              We should give @RandAlThor@lemmy.ca benefit of the doubt. Sometimes when people view other's profile from another instance, the post history shows up empty.

          • CloutAtlas [he/him]
            ·
            1 year ago

            ...are you aware you can't see people's post histories if you click their username on lemmy.ca and you have to visit their home instance?

        • BeamBrain [he/him]
          ·
          1 year ago

          Uhhh, that's obviously different, America is a white western country and so it owns the world

        • Frank [he/him, he/him]
          ·
          1 year ago

          Beep boop I have been programmed to make really fucking cool historical dramas beep boop (This is my stereotype about China idk what else happens there I just really like Three Kingdoms adaptations did y'all see 2008's Red Cliff it was dope af! John Woo directing!)

          • WIIHAPPYFEW [he/him, they/them]
            ·
            1 year ago

            MUST MAKE DISPROPORTIONATE AMOUNT OF TOM AND JERRY SHITPOSTS

            MUST POST MEMES OF AN AD FOR MIXUE ICE CITY

            MUST UPLOAD 12 GB FOLDER OF BIAOQING IMAGES

      • zephyreks@lemmy.ca
        ·
        1 year ago

        "or"

        not "and", "or".

        The southwestern quadrant of Taiwan's ADIZ overlaps with China's ADIZ. If anything, Taiwan is overclaiming their ADIZ.

      • socsa@lemmy.ml
        ·
        1 year ago

        First day? Lemmygrad brigades every worldnews thread about China or Russia.

                • GarbageShoot [he/him]
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  Did you ever check out that thread on lemmygrad I made for you? You never said anything but you might have just forgotten.

                  • socsa@lemmy.ml
                    ·
                    1 year ago

                    I glanced at it. But you see what's happening here right? These people have no interest in anything but trolling.

                    • GarbageShoot [he/him]
                      ·
                      edit-2
                      1 year ago

                      I mean, it was made solely for your benefit (though I did like reading it). For your convenience, here it is again.

                      They are mocking you because they have assessed you as not interested in really engaging with people. If you were more unassuming, the response would be different. It sucks to be dogpiled-on, it has happened to me -- with this very group no less -- but it's good to try to have some perspective of the limits of the implications of such behavior.

                      Also hexbear is just a little excited to have liberals to use as punching bags via federation, so there's definitely a bit of a hair trigger. I generally prefer to stick to my own ways of talking with people for various reasons, but I struggle to find serious fault with them when I am essentially doing the same thing in my own way with others, and OP seriously brought this upon themselves by posting such a stupid, misleading, and alarmist article (see the comments about the Taiwan ADIZ from myself and others).

                      Edit: also I checked back and yeah, you were picking a fight. Liberal complains about "brigading," socialist A criticizes them, socialist B riffs on socialist A's comment, then you come and reply to socialist B with "You seem upset," which I would struggle to read as anything other than condescending and terse. I misread

                      It's not like you said "Hey, what about the Taiwan Strait part?" and got people screaming "HOG OUT OR LOG OUT!"

                      • socsa@lemmy.ml
                        ·
                        edit-2
                        1 year ago

                        I don't think I've expressed any liberal sentiments here at all.

                        I legitimately don't care either way tbh. All this does is once again reinforce the idea that leftist spaces on the Internet are hostile to anything besides a very narrow set of ideas which makes up a very small and myopic subset of leftist thought. I am not here to cure anyone's ignorance. I am engaging earnestly with you because you are actually making an effort to converse instead of just posting literal pig shit.

                        • GarbageShoot [he/him]
                          ·
                          1 year ago

                          Whoops, I misread the reply chain pretty severely, you can ignore the edit. You were picking a fight, but not along the lines I wrote there.

                          I don't they've expressed any liberal sentiments here at all.

                          Neoliberal is a subset of liberal (in the traditional philosophical sense, not American vernacular), and there is a very clear divide in the thread between neoliberal and socialist.

                          I legitimately don't care either way tbh.

                          With due respect, you're just a little Not Mad, but let's not belabor the point. I've been Not Mad too, it's not a sin.

                          All this does is once again reinforce the idea that leftist spaces on the Internet are hostile to anything besides a very narrow set of ideas which makes up a very small and myopic subset of leftist thought

                          There are a bunch of things wrong with this, starting with that the article was misleading dogshit and deserves to be mocked. Beyond that, the cultural clique of Hexbear can be myopic, but I think that it does not compare negatively to modern neoliberals in this respect. It is much more interested in international perspectives rather than the perspective of the "international community" (i.e. the EU + the Anglosphere + the most convenient elements of Taiwan, Japan, and SK). They quite frequently read neoliberal writing and listen to neoliberal speeches and so on, while neoliberals are usually content to hear about anything to do with their opposition exclusively through second- and third-hand reporting by their own media.

                          Which leads me into my next point, that "tankies" etc. are readily called fringe by liberals on the internet, but internationally represent a very common set of opinions (or a strong overlap therewith). It is itself myopia to dismiss the opinions of Chinese and many other people in the imperial periphery and consider only the opinions of the imperial core when evaluating what people think and what "leftist thought" consists of. You could not serious believe, for example, that the Collected Writings of Chairman Mao are important to only a "small subset of leftist thought," right? Sure, you are unlikely to know anyone -- or even to have ever met anyone in your real life -- who regards such a thing positively, but your personal experiences are not the world.

                          As an aside, the "bot" rhetoric that the liberals so often display is not really helping your case about the tankies being especially closed-minded.

                          I am not here to cure anyone's ignorance.

                          Do you see how most people would not be interested in talking with someone who says things like this? That level of condescension rarely produces anything other than scorn.

                          "You are being condescending to me too!"

                          Sure, I don't think that's an unreasonable view (though not my intention), but I am nonetheless explaining and substantiating my differences rather than merely denouncing what you say as "ignorant," and even if we nonetheless accept my fault, that just results in a criticism towards both of us rather than solely towards me.

                          I am engaging earnestly with you because you are actually making an effort to converse instead of just posting literal pig shit.

                          I would not have replied at all if I didn't recognize your username. You hadn't been saying anything in this thread that someone would normally think merits a serious response. You were derisive right out of the gate. To act this way and then complain about other people not turning the other cheek and speaking patiently to you is silly.

                          I promise you that if you make an alt (preferably with a different username in case people are grumpy with the interaction here) and post a thread on asklemmygrad or askchapo to the effect of "Hey, I'm a [whatever you call your flavor of liberalism], but I want to learn about what you believe on various topics and what you think of certain criticisms . . ." you will get mostly responses that are earnest. If you expect people to be polite and unassuming towards you when you begin by being aggressive and presumptuous, you will almost exclusively be disappointed, and I don't just mean that for interacting with commies.

                          • -6-6-6-@lemmygrad.ml
                            ·
                            5 months ago

                            "I am engaging earnestly with you because you are actually making an effort to converse instead of just posting literal pig shit."

                            Show

                          • socsa@lemmy.ml
                            ·
                            edit-2
                            1 year ago

                            Ignorance, once again, being the idea that ML orthodoxy is the only "true socialism." We've been over this already and I'm not sure there's much point in carrying on this conversation if you are going to intentionally misrepresent politics I have articulated to you a number of times.

                            And to be honest, it sounds like you are the one doing a lot of speaking for the Chinese while making a lot of assumptions about my relationship with Chinese society. I don't really feel the need to justify any of this to you or trade cultural credentials. That honestly feels offensive and chauvinist.

                            I do appreciate the discussion though. I hope we can continue this in a different setting somehow.

                            • GarbageShoot [he/him]
                              ·
                              1 year ago

                              Ignorance, once again, being the idea that ML orthodoxy is the only "true socialism."

                              That is not the hexbear line and not even relevant to the thread. Being an anarchist or whatever you like doesn't mean believing western smears of China -- like this incredibly poor article that you keep talking around.

                              We've been over this already and I'm not sure there's much point in carrying on this conversation if you are going to intentionally misrepresent politics I have articulated to you a number of times.

                              I remember now from that conversation a week ago that you insist on being some type of socialist but I am pretty sure you never specified.

                              And to be honest, it sounds like you are the one doing a lot of speaking for the Chinese

                              It's not an unfounded opinion that the CPC has strong popular support. That doesn't mean the majority of China is ML in any serious way -- plainly, they don't seem to be -- but it does support the view that articles like this are a completely bullshit characterization of the PRC - RoC situation and most people in China (and many other countries in the imperial periphery) would agree.

                              while making a lot of assumptions about my relationship with Chinese society. I don't really feel the need to justify any of this to you or trade cultural credentials.

                              Reading another comment you made in this thread: Whoops, I guess you probably have met a Marxist or two. That wasn't terribly important to my argument, I was merely speculating on how you might have developed you false opinions. Given this new information, I don't have a new guess.

                              I don't care about your life and wasn't attempting to initiate some identity game, I merely try to understand things in terms of how ideology is downstream from personal circumstances, and how an ideology that is well-suited to one's personal circumstances can nonetheless lead them to have a distorted view of the world outside their experience. I support your inclination to not discuss these details with me but invite you to reflect on them to yourself in this context.

                            • silent_water [she/her]
                              ·
                              1 year ago

                              being the idea that ML orthodoxy is the only "true socialism."

                              hexbear literally bans anyone who posts this unironically. there's a strict rule against sectarianism.

                          • socsa@lemmy.ml
                            ·
                            edit-2
                            1 year ago

                            I read GS's thread, what do you want me to say? I have more personal, firsthand experience with China than anyone commenting there? I have family there? I speak the language? I have an actual stake in Chinese society? I think we've seen conclusively that none of that matters if you do a wrongspeak.

                            GS even admits that the brigading is obnoxious then goes on to defend it. Like I said, this is well beyond my ability to truly care, I was just really hoping that lemmy would be a place people could discuss these topics instead of just trolling, and then having double standards when someone else gently pushes back.

                            Edit - improper pronoun

                            • GarbageShoot [he/him]
                              ·
                              1 year ago

                              GS even admits that the brigading is obnoxious then goes on to defend it.

                              Dogpiling and brigading are two different things. Brigading is (at least loosely) coordinated, dogpiling is something people do when they are there, coordinated or not. The algorithm just happened to put this thread near the top on Hexbear, which is only federated with a handful of instances, as can be seen by the fact that I was the very first person to comment on it (next was op, then myself again, iirc). It is categorically false to my knowledge that this thread was "brigaded," a bunch of people with similar opinions on this issue just all saw the thread.

                              And it is obnoxious, but "obnoxious" doesn't mean "evil," especially when you were speaking so derisively about the people you had to have seen made up the bulk of the thread when you made your first comment. Honestly, what did you expect? In most political communities you'd get a very similar reaction, and I'd prefer a single emote to a "Crimes of China" copypasta filling up my inbox.

                                • GarbageShoot [he/him]
                                  ·
                                  1 year ago

                                  Scare quotes are used for discussing definitions, as in, uh . . . "socialism" is not "when the government does stuff". I was not meaning to convey that you used a word that you plainly did not, just highlighting that me agreeing to something being obnoxious does not mean agreeing to it being seriously wrong (which in common parlance might be called "evil").

                            • brain_in_a_box [he/him]
                              ·
                              edit-2
                              1 year ago

                              Again, learn what federation is or go back to reddit. No one is "brigading"

                              You also can't say you were pushing back when you were trolling right out the gate and every other comment is in reply to you.

  • Frank [he/him, he/him]
    ·
    1 year ago

    Is this that stupid shit where their air defense zone covers a huge chunk of mainland China and they freak out every time China flies Chinese planes over China?

  • ThomasMuentzner [he/him, comrade/them]
    ·
    1 year ago

    okay guys , so since this hole federation stuff your Pro Imperial Wrong Takes comes my way , it must be corrected ..

    this is Taiwans Air Identification Zone

    Show
    it is a Bullshit leftover that spans so vast over china that it simply can not be not violated ,.. theirby producing the most wonderfull "Permanent - Saturaton - Propaganda" of China Bad Bakround noise for the Imperial core audience in their Echo Chambers .

    PS: this is where real Journalist go in the west , when they start beeing critical of non approved subjects.

    "Good thing propaganda only ever happens to other people"

    Show

      • Frank [he/him, he/him]
        ·
        1 year ago

        withdrawing support for Taiwan in the still-distant future.

        They're going to tip the Republic of China in to the ocean as soon as they've stolen all of TSCM's productive capacity. That's all this was ever about. They're building chip fabs in Arizona right now. As soon as the US can produce it's own Chips the RoC is... going to go right back to tense but peaceful relations with the mainland like they had before DC started waving it's grand imperial [redacted] around.

          • GarbageShoot [he/him]
            ·
            1 year ago

            Yeah, you can say in a meaningful sense that the US co-founded Taiwan. I personally think that part of the reason the US wants to recreate Taiwan's manufacturing capacity is that it makes Taiwan much more expendable, meaning it can be used for military provocations and even war (as some US generals are openly calling for or predicting) without risking the loss of an irreplaceable economic asset to the US.

  • Fuckass
    ·
    edit-2
    1 year ago

    deleted by creator

  • rjs001@lemmygrad.ml
    ·
    1 year ago

    How can a country intrude into its own territory? These separatists need to be put in their places.

  • TheBroodian [none/use name]
    ·
    1 year ago

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    sicko-laser