Two women were talking about this boxer at a pizzeria, on the table next to mine. One was explaining to the second how she was a transgender woman and under HRT, so this was the cause of the debate. I had to step in and tell them she was completely cis and that he father didn't want her to pick up box because it was not a girly enough sport
The people that spread this shit probably just quietly moved on instead of posting a correction and apology. The people that read their shit then never saw the truth.
A lie can make it halfway across the world before the truth has had time to lace up its shoes, to paraphrase an old adage
There could be a complete genetic breakdown of Khelif posted tomorrow to every news outlet that proves, conclusively, she is a cis woman, and it wouldn't matter. The lie that started everything is more interesting and has more staying power
People who aren't invested in it but who hear it casually in "reputable news sources" aren't going to inform themselves on any corrections, the damage is already done
The key to talking about things you don’t know about is to be loud, aggressive, and ridiculously confident in your beliefs. Project competency though you have none.
One time in English class we had a series of debates as one of our assignments. I completely winged it and got a B+ just for sounding authoritative.
I carry an old timey leather doctor's bag full of rusty pliers and laudanum bottles so if I ever get into a debate I can lift the bag and say "as a doctor-" before spouting off.
What about learning these phrases instead:
- I believe
- I seem to recall
- As I understand it
- It seems to me that
- In my experience
In other words, make it clear to the reader what your level of skill or knowledge is.
Whilst chewing on that, consider adding a source if you have one (or six).
Source: I've been here a while and it's stood me in good stead during online (and offline) conversation over the decades.
If you're actually informed, couching your opinion like this dulls its impact for no good reason. It's good to speak/write confidently when you have cause to be confident.
Hedging is great for situations where you aren't confident, but should otherwise be used sparingly.
I fully support this, and I do this too. It saves me from looking like a dickhead. Honestly I won't drop one of the "I believe" modifiers until after 10+ hours (usually 30+ hours) of not social media reading on a topic.
Even fools are thought wise if they keep silent, and discerning if they hold their tongues.But then how am I supposed to get angry and ridicule random people on the internet?
Oh there's plenty of room for someone who is informed to get angry and rightly ridicule people who deserve it.
<group> been real quiet since this meme dropped
please make up a group. I couldn't decide on a funny one
<nobody> is the only group that fits tho fr.
Point being nobody thinks they're the meme
Well, actually the opinion on the topic you are not informed about displays your values and having it might be beneficial to you.
The problem is not in the people, the problem is in the propaganda
Oh I assure you the people who you want to shut down "did their own research" and were even encouraged to do so
It's good to shut down ignorant discussion, yes.
Obviously there's a difference between "doing your own research" via madeupshit.wiki and actually educating oneself.
No investigation, no right to speak, peckerwood
dbzer0 techbros delenda est
An example would be a parent who doesn't want any gender-related issue to be discussed in the school.
Are they inherently flawed and inherently hateful individuals? Probably not
Do they think that the schools indoctrinate children and they do care about them? Probably that's the case.
the opinion on the topic you are not informed about displays your values and having it might be beneficial to you.
And it might be detrimental to you just as easily. There's no way to know which without being informed, but an ignorant opinion based on "values" (aka vibes and what you want to be true rather than what is true) is more likely to hurt you or others in the long run. Just as being a racist bigot who has a wrong opinion about people of color might find that holding their racist opinion is immediately beneficial to themselves if they're in a similarly bigoted community, being a bigot is ultimately harmful for reasons I would hope wouldn't need to be explained.
An example would be a parent who doesn't want any gender-related issue to be discussed in the school.
Yet their uninformed opinion is harmful. Gender issues are inevitably part of our world and learning about them will not only prepare children to have an understanding of them that their ignorant parent lacks and help make the world safer and more livable for everyone as a result, but if that child themselves turns out to be gender stereotype non-conforming, then learning about those issues will help them better understand themselves and potentially save them from much of the misery inflicted on them by an ignorant populous.
An example would be a parent who doesn't want any gender-related issue to be discussed in the school.
Are they inherently flawed and inherently hateful individuals?
Yes, for the reason Dirt_Possum stayed below. They have a responsibility to properly educate themselves on issues that effect their children or decisions they may make that impact other people's children.
Not wanting to explore issues like gender or race is part of why certain forms of bigotry have proven so persistent.
So you don't know that she has undescended testes, then. You just made it the fuck up. Even the XY thing is pretty contentious as this point. You should shut the fuck up when making judgements about other people's sex organs, especially when it's just conjecture.
There's no source that she has testes, that's all fully made up and you should be ashamed of yourself for repeating that.
Again, the XY thing is pretty sus and even normal lib sources don't believe it.
I hope you spend the rest of your life having people talk shit about your genitals. Really.
Didn't the IBA confirm khelif and Lin failed karyotype tests?
I'm just gonna quote Wikipedia as I'm lazy. Tldr: it's complicated.
Following Khelif's victory over Italy's Angela Carini during the 2024 Olympic Games, rumours surfaced on social media about her gender. These were fuelled by Khelif's disqualification from the 2023 Women's World Boxing Championships organised by the Russian-led International Boxing Association (IBA) after allegedly failing unspecified gender eligibility tests.[4][5] This disqualification happened three days after Khelif defeated a previously unbeaten Russian prospect, thus restoring the Russian boxer's undefeated record.[6] The IBA's Olympic status was later revoked due to governance issues as well as judging and refereeing corruption. The International Olympic Committee (IOC) and its Paris Boxing Unit stated Khelif was eligible to compete in the Olympics, and criticized the IBA's previous disqualification as "sudden and arbitrary" and taken "without any due process".[7] No medical evidence that Khelif has XY chromosomes or elevated levels of testosterone has been published.[8] Khelif was born female and identifies as female.[9]
I'm going off of the IBA statement that says:
Following many complaints from several coaches, boxers agreed to gender testing. Blood sample collection was made on 17 May 2022. Sistem Tip Laboratory from Istanbul (License Number: 194-MRK) issued its report on 24 May 2022, after the competition ended. The laboratory detected results that didn’t match the eligibility criteria for IBA women’s events.
At the next IBA Women’s World Boxing Championships 2023 in New Delhi, Khelif and Lin were tested following their consent again before their first fights. Blood sample collection was made on 17 March 2023. Dr Lal PathLabs from New Delhi issued its report on 23 March 2023. The findings were absolutely identical to the first test results.
Definition of Men/Male/Boy = individual with chromosome XY.
Definition of Women/Female/Girl = individual with chromosome XX
The IBA can't legally publish the results, nor can either lab. The only people that can positively confirm or deny this are Khelif and Lin and don't seem like they will. I'm not sure if it's a testosterone imbalance or a chromosomal issue but the way the IBA placed the definition there and didn't have hormonal bounds in the press release makes me think it's a chromosome thing. I don't really buy the "spoopy corrupt RuZZians" line that they disqualified her because she beat the Russian athlete because of the 2022 tests and the 2 independent labs.
You're taking the IBA at their word despite their problems. Also you repeating the
cw: queerphobic
XY = women
line is a bit problematic.
The only people that can positively confirm or deny this are Khelif and Lin and don't seem like they will
Insisting that women need to prove their gender is gonna lead to a lot of issues down the line.
At least get the point of the meme, and hold your opinion until we all know more.
That is a quote from the IBA and that is their criteria. The only opinion I've stated here was that I don't think the IBA disqualified her for beating a Russian athlete because of the 2022 test, and that Lin didn't beat the Russian athlete and was also disqualified. I'm not defending the IBA here, they are one of 5 (Khelif, Lin, Sistem Tip, PathLabs) entities that have relevant information on this topic and the only one that is publishing specific statements here. Everything other than it is quotes from the IBA press release.
"No investigation, no right to speak."
