Someone literally made this argument to me yesterday. I asked how continuing to arm Israel helped stop the genocide of Palestinians and they started talking about American national interests and how if we don’t arm Israel someone else will. No mention of Palestine in their answer whatsoever. Shit was just gross.
I've definitely run into that argument before.
It assumes an inherent strategic value to Israel that applies universally and misses how Israel is uniquely beneficial to US interests.
It's not like China needs Israel, with the belt-and-road it is opening relations with literally the entire middle east and not just the white settler colony. Russia already has close allies in the region that would oppose allying with Israel. The EU could try to replace the US as the main backer, and it has a material interest in doing so, but they just don't have the military capacity to pull it off.
i hate those sorts of interactions because the other person quite literally said nothing yet they walk away feeling like they "won" or like they "had the correct take", i can 100% guarantee it
This is that settler with a fucking Brooklyn accent right? Anybody have a link to that video?
https://youtube.com/watch?v=KNqozQ8uaV8
Unrelated, but can we get a :woodchipper: emote?
I found a YouTube link in your comment. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:
This is a link to him explaining himself, admitting they're trying to occupy as much territory as possible in the event of peace (not related to this genocide; he means peaceful coexistence with Palestinians)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hwJczFoDhc
"how are you?"
thank god, still alive
if god exists he fucking hates you and nobody is thankful you are alive.
and look, i'm not body shaming, but get a shirt that fits. what the fuck. i don't care that he's a bigger dude, but he needs a bigger shirt. maybe that's the largest size he could steal from the malnourished palestinians he took that house from.
also, "how did you end up here?"
it's a long story, i had to move from where i was
bro is a sex offender.
I found a YouTube link in your comment. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:
Coconuts are white on the inside.
Just an unrelated thing I was thinking about.
Am I the only one who feels kind of uneasy referring to a non-white person as a coconut?
as a non-white person i'm giving you the pass and some advice to stop falling for liberal bullshit. basically- no, making a joke about some absolutely unhinged bullshit this freak said is not rooted in racism or sexism. you don't need to twist yourself up trying to figure out how it is because some lib planted the idea in your head and as an empathetic person you actually considered their point of view.
I saw this post, went away for a minute to formulate a reply, came back and it was gone
I'm trying to get on as many shit lists as possible. Really get up against that wall, you know?
ah, the "I was being an obtuse shithead on PURPOSE" move, classic
No, more like badly executed self-deprecating humor. I stand by what was deleted. I think accelerationism is like throwing matches at your furniture and yelling "Shazam!" in hopes that it summons a genie instead of burning you to death.
Accelerationism is when people with no power refuse to condone genocide with you, got it
If you have a problem with accelerationism, why not take it up with the people-shaped things of the ruling class who actually have their collective foot on the accelerator?
I swear, bro, it's okay if we kill you, it's different for us. We read these books that said it was okay for us, those other auths' books are wrong and they need the bullet. If we just kill a few more people for the right reasons, it'll totally be okay.
conditional_soup's position on killing the guards, commanders and executioners of Nazi concentration camps: "No, you can't do that, it makes you just as bad as them! You have to debate them in the marketplace of ideas while they exterminate millions of Jews, queers and other 'undesirables.'"
It's literally comic book logic. Also no one who holds this belief does so sincerely. Ask them about homeless people, addicts and tweakers, and terrorists and what the state is justified in doing.
Many of these people will absolutely defend Nazis but condemn a victim of addiction to brutality and death.
1,000%. Liberals will say they abhor all violence, but then turn blind eyes to the violence that is necessary to maintain our (relatively) safe and comfortable lives in the imperial core. But when the oppressed commit violence against their oppressors, or a powerful force commits violence in behalf of the oppressed, suddenly liberals are shocked and aghast at the brutality of it all!
TC_209's position on killing Nazis accidentally didn't align with the party's. They are put against the wall by a young officer who didn't pay attention when they read theory in school.
You walked yourself into the position of arguing against killing Nazis at concentration camps. Go home.
Did I? Because I was thinking about how the Soviet Union had a non-aggression pact with Nazi Germany until the latter attacked the former. It was only then that the USSR started giving a shit about killin natzis. Which, in total fairness, was kind of generally true of much of the West at that time. The only reason the Holocaust was stopped was that shithead got too big for his britches and pissed off 110% of the right people. It had nothing to do with the noble cause of ending genocide, ending genocide was just a happy side effect.
Ending the Holocaust was the right thing to do, but it was only ever a retroactive point for the war against the Nazis. A lot of their political contemporaries either agreed with them or didn't have the political will to go to war over it. And yeah, anyone paying attention knew what was going on. Maybe the full scope wasn't well understood until after the war, but plenty of states knew what was happening.
A non-aggession pact that was necessary because the UK and France rejected a proposal by the Soviet Union to end the military threat of the Third Reich before it invaded Poland. But of course they rejected it, since the capitalist nations of Europe had spent years appeasing the Nazis, even signing their own pacts of neutrality and non-aggression with the Third Reich. Most of this is middle school history and you are failing.
Has anyone ever been executed for not executing people? Iirc even the nazis didn't do that. Their einzastzgroupen troops were developing ptsd from killing Jews which is why they invented the gas chambers. You are arguing about complete and utterly nonexistent things.
Not that I know of, tbh. I'm sure that the answer to that question can technically be yes; I'm certain that somewhere across all the horrors of human history, it must have happened, but I can't think of a case I'm aware of.
Do you think states are justified in killing terrorists? Yes or no?
I think that arguing about justification is a moot point. Anyone can justify anything if they want to, and that goes twice for states. That's without wading into the quagmire on the question of terrorism, largely for sanity's sake. Generally, I think it is always correct to resist a state whose objectives include mass murder.
Is that a yes or a no? You either believe that states have the right to kill people they deem terrorists (whether that's in good faith or bad is irrelevant) or they don't have that right period.
There is no in-between; if you can't answer the question or dance around it then what you've told everyone is that even you don't believe in your own logic
tl;Dr: No, not a right, but an obligation.
I think that states have not a right, but a requirement to kill terrorists in order to guarantee their continued existence. If they don't, then they no longer have the monopoly on violence, and the odds that a new state will form increase. It's the same as anything that seeks to kill another thing to further its own existence. Though, I reject your assertion that one must only absolutely agree or disagree that state violence towards terrorists is legitimate, regardless of whether it's in bad faith. By that logic, if you agree that the police in China may use deadly force to kill a spree murderer, you necessarily agree to the genocide of Palestine. As the Israeli state functionally considers all surrounding peoples, including Palestine, to be terrorists, they would be justified in committing genocide, because the Israeli state is doing it (in bad faith) to stop terrorism.
I also think that people have a much more legitimate right to resist the state than the state has to propagate its continued existence. It's really down to whose violence you believe is legitimate, and I tend to air on the side of people over states. Were the native American raids against US settlers legitimate violence? Was the US right to kill the native American terrorists? Was the French Resistance to the Nazi occupation legitimate violence? Were the Nazis right to kill the resistance fighters? The Russian empire and the revolutionaries? Israel and Hamas? It's states acting on their requirement to maintain and exercise the monopoly on violence. It's just states propagating their own existence, which they always must do or face extinction; so the question becomes, does every state have a right to secure its existence in the way it imagines itself? No, I don't believe so. It's going to do it anyway, because that's what states do, but I don't think that the state, as a composition of political elements, has an absolute right to execute its will against all others.
Edit: took out the "free of all harassment". We're talking about whether the state has the right to kill terrorists, so the natural assumption is that the state in question has already been harassed.
So you think that killing is okay then? Even if it's to protect the State's existence? So what are you fucking complaining about then? USSR was justified in killing Nazis because they were a fucking threat to the USSR's existence.
Nazis were terrorists against the USSR, so it's fine that they killed them.
@TC_209@hexbear.net look see. Liberals always do this, complete hypocrisy and insulting other people's intelligence.
conditonal_soup is just another fascist who is either unwilling or unable to tell the difference between the violence of those who oppress and those who are oppressed. I've decided to just ignore them, and I'd recommend you do the same comrade.
Yeah I'm not engaging further, they just asked me if I was okay with the genocide in Gaza.
I'm not even sure where they were going with that, but ngl I don't care.
You've read me wrong if you think I'm upset over dead Nazis. I think you're being obtuse on purpose, so I'll do you a fair turn and wager that you're very happy with how Israel's been fighting "terrorism".
You might as well ask me if I think the Nazis were justified in killing Jewish "terrorists" during the Holocaust.
Pro tip: it's not the same thing, dumbass.
Final note:
Show
It seems an awful lot like Israel is doing systematic genocide on flimsy pretenses, kind of a lot like the Nazis did. Nobody's life is worth anything to the state, dipshit.
we have emojis too
