Not just here, but also on reddit and other social media.
Sure, there is a propaganda war brewing wherein a lot of Western media are pushing exaggerated narratives, Adrian Zenz is a theological dope of an academic, and the CIA has a vested interest in accelerating conflict, etc. but surely there's got to be room to also address the shortcomings of China as well? Whether it's about LGBTQ+ issues, or the exploits of Chinese capitalism, or being able to criticize or make fun of Xi, I see posts here routinely and systemically brigaded and comments downvoted to oblivion that even sniff at criticism of China.
I consider myself a free agent, and China's meteoric rise gives me some hope for a brighter tomorrow (in contrast to the US), but this blatant campaign of social media manipulation gives me pause for concern. It just screams insecurity and makes me not trust what feels like a counter-propaganda narrative. (Mods, please never get rid of the downvote counter.)
Anyway, here's hoping for a brighter future, but please let ideas breathe.
Thanks for listening.
Dude, I'm with you on all the bad faith propagandistic critique and outright lies against China. I'm with you on orders of magnitude difference between China and the West vs. Biden and Trump. I'm with you on the undeniable preferability of Chinese managed capitalism (or "socialism with Chinese characteristics" as they call it) as opposed to outright genocidal and ecocidal Western capitalism. And above all I'm with you on never legitimising the imperialist onslaught against China and the push for its re-colonisation. In fact I don't think any leftist who's not a cloud dwelling idealist would find any of this controversial or even worthy of discussion. The issue here when I say that uncritical admiration of China reeks of propagandistic bad faith lesser evilism is that any discussion about China in leftist spaces is never purely a discussion about China but also automatically a discussion about the future of socialism. Quo vadis? And it would be foolish to just bury your head in the sand and engage in a "China got it all sorted out and taken care of, let's just wait for them to save us all" prophecy mongering because no, China doesn't look like how we want a socialist society to ultimately look like but is rather a (admittedly clever and seemingly successful) response to material pressures, a subversive strategy to dealing with an imperialist siege. It also fosters a culture based on blind faith and subordination, rather than a free thinking scientific approach of how we get from here to there and what being "there" might entail.
Hope my reply doesn't come off hostile, it certainly wasn't intended to and I apologize beforehand if any comrades get that impression.
Well if it's just this type of more "theoretical" based criticism, as you say, then that's different from the accusation type criticism I was imagining. Yeah I think it's fine to talk about what China should or should not do better from that angle. As long as they still keep in mind that China is leagues closer to anything resembling working socialism than any other powerful country on earth.
Is that different from any other country? And even if it was (which I don't know), is blind faith necessarily always a bad thing?
It seems to me that if the culture is too free-thinking, then you'll get many different proposals on how to do something, which could lead to bickering and lack of group coherence. Or it could simply end up picking the best method, if it works the right way.
Also I think many people perceive the Chinese as less free-thinking, when really they simply have less of a need to be free-thinking. Because their government actually looks out for them to some extent, they need not parttake in the free thinking that goes on in Black nationalist movements or anti-imperial movements or whatnot. Their mind is freed up for other, more productive pursuits, and they lead a more stress-free life in that aspect.
Ultimately this is a pretty subjective and debatable thing, but one fact is that blind obedience IS necessary in certain contexts, at the very least. For example in the absence of such obedience you'd have huge trouble running an army or even building a real communist movement.
Just to clarify: the "blind faith" thing was in regards to certain fanatical China stans and not towards China itself. I'm pretty sure there are enough free thinkers to go around in China.
As to the rest, yeah it's a difficult topic. We certainly will need both faith to a certain extent (though hopefully not blind) and subordination to get things going. The question is how to use those tools without the tools consuming the aims and hollowing out what we originally set out to do (as I would argue has happened in the past in socialist countries to a greater or lesser extent). The discussion about accountable management and organisational systems, in-built checks and balances, avoidance of mission creep, etc. is a very necessary discussion.