• PaulWall [he/him]
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    4 years ago

    my point isn’t that we have to reinvent socialism after the collapse, we already have the texts and the knowledge; we just need to ensure it’s survival and it’s being put into action. socialism is inherently more efficient economically than capitalism, if given equal footing after a great restart event, i have full faith that the productive forces of socialism will win out in the end

    • RandomWords [he/him]
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      4 years ago

      yeah, dude, obviously. if humans can sustain it. (insert marxist crab, two capitalists stuck on a fucking island meme) taht doesn't change the fact that as we are, humans are shit.

      this has been extremely enlightening. even most of chapo believes that "humans are the shit dude, fuck everybody else, we rock." fucking pathetic. further confirmation for me that when the earth finally wipes us out, it will be the fucking best for the entire universe. if we're the best we have to offer, wow.

      • PaulWall [he/him]
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        4 years ago

        dude if you hate humans then why don’t you make your politics about trying to get ride of as many as possible rather than socialism which is inherently against what you’re talking about

        • RandomWords [he/him]
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          4 years ago

          what i'm talking about goes beyond "human kind." if you think socialism is a huamn concept that's fucking pathetic. you're a fucking lib and you don't realize it.

          • PaulWall [he/him]
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            4 years ago

            “if you think socialism is a human concept your a lib”

            bruh read Wittgenstein, literally every concept is a human concept you fool

              • PaulWall [he/him]
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                4 years ago

                projection from the person who spends his live depressed

                • RandomWords [he/him]
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                  4 years ago

                  i'm day to day psyched to be alive man. that doesn't mean that i'm pathetic enough to think that my species is "the shit." just fucking heinous. you don't even realize what you're saying. this is a sad point for me in that i realize who the fucking i am dealing with that i thought were my peers.

                  • PaulWall [he/him]
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                    4 years ago

                    How about this, can we agree that there is a certain historical group of humans that throughout time have consistently been horrible and evil human beings. ie the ruling class of landowners and capital owners.

                    I’ll agree with you if you restrain your condemnation down to the groups of humans who actually perpetrated the crimes your speaking off. Because i do agree with your view of our history as a whole, i just think it reflects the views of some humans not all humans. It makes no sense to condemn all the humans in history who were slaves to the same fate as those who enslaved them.

                    basically can we agree that it’s just a majority of humans ie those who hold power and support the powers that be that are horrible? i see you’re point now that it’s meaningless to try and say humanity as a whole is either good or bad, we need to say this humanity as part of the whole is bad and that humanity as a part of the whole is good.

                    • RandomWords [he/him]
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                      4 years ago

                      you're asking me to onstrain my view to those at the top and ignore the fact that people ain't doing shit about it, when we're talking about species as a whole. if you're on this site, you realize what the fuck a lib and a fucking chud are, and you want me to pretend that neither exist in order to "restrain my condmenation down toe hte groups of humans actually perpetuating the crimes i'm speaking of."

                      think about what the fuck you're asking of me towards the thing i'm arguing.

                      • PaulWall [he/him]
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                        4 years ago

                        no that’s not what i’m asking you, i’m asking you to condemn the individuals you see fit for condemnation by your own standards. just don’t condemn the species as a whole, just those member of the species who are bad. I don’t care if that number ends up being 99% of humans as evil. at least that means you’ve identified the 1% who aren’t that you can thus work with

                        • RandomWords [he/him]
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                          4 years ago

                          lol now we're getting down to 1% of humans when the original claim was that "humans are the most amazing thing ever." and i'm the one getting downvoted.

                          • PaulWall [he/him]
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                            4 years ago

                            Yeah bc i realized my initial position was as groundless as your initial position. both of us were trying to say the humans race as a whole is either good or bad, but it’s just not valid to abstract out like that i’ve realized. we would need to say some humans are good and some are bad. and also i was trying to be optimistic and speak on the potential of humans to be great and the shit, rather than them being so now already.

                            you’ve made me drop my original claim as false and so i was seeing if maybe you would do the same given the reasons for me dropping my claim seem to apply to your claim too.

                            tl,dr; i’ve realized we can’t make a universal evaluation and i’m wondering if you’ve realized that too in the course of this conversation

                            • RandomWords [he/him]
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                              4 years ago

                              my position has lots of information to back it up dude.

                              • PaulWall [he/him]
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                                4 years ago

                                so you think you can say all humans are bad? that’s what you’re saying when you say humankind is bad right?

                                • RandomWords [he/him]
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                                  4 years ago

                                  i didn't say all, i said as a whole to the planet, which means at least 50%, and yes we are definitely bad as a whole to the planet. we do not fucking fit the definition of " the most amazing thing ever."

                                  the fact that i've been down voted for a simple fucking fact is gross.

                                  • PaulWall [he/him]
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                                    4 years ago

                                    alright well i suppose we agree then. the reason i’ve been arguing is because it seems as through you were being a nihilist and arguing against the value of human life and it potential to be ethical. if all you’re saying is that some humans fucked the planet up and as a result humankind collectively had a negative input on the earth, then yeah that’s just fact i agree with you. can’t be letting them nihilists infiltrate the movement, it’s literally a death-knell for effective praxis

                                    • RandomWords [he/him]
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                                      4 years ago

                                      i am against the value of human life. we have not been valuable to the thing that sustains us. i am against our 'potential to be ethical.' we have not proven taht to be our nature.

                                      i am saying that most humans fuck up the planet, ans the reuslt of humankind collectively has had a negative impact on the earth.

                                      the idea that you 'can't let nihilists infiltrate the movement' is slurring me. i'm not a nihilist in that i believe only negativity prevails, what i believe is that humans, not life, as a whole, has definitely had a negative impact.

                                      you on the otherhand have had nothing and will have nothign to present as far as evidence hat we as a species have had a positive impact on this planet. because you can't. because we don't. accept that shit mother fucker.

                                      • PaulWall [he/him]
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                                        4 years ago

                                        okay nevermind i guess you still need to just go read kant. it would fix your brainworms

                                          • PaulWall [he/him]
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                                            4 years ago

                                            no it’s just i don’t have the patience to explain the critique of pure reason to you. however, if you read it you would understand that you’re answer to the question asked isn’t wrong, the question itself is nonsensical. and thus any answer yielded will be nonsense. you’re trying to evaluate human life from a perspective outside human perspective. that is literally impossible.

                                            • RandomWords [he/him]
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                                              4 years ago

                                              i know philosphy, i just don't accept some dude's thoughts as a frame work for my own. maybe you should question why you do.

                                                • RandomWords [he/him]
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                                                  4 years ago

                                                  yeah i've taken a philosophy class or two. it doesn't effect my view on morality.

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                                                    4 years ago

                                                    well you’d know then that your saying that the value of human life is negative is literally nihilism

                                                    • RandomWords [he/him]
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                                                      4 years ago

                                                      no, nihilism is the belief that all life is meaningless. i didn't say anything like that. in fact what i said was in contradiction to that.

                                                      • PaulWall [he/him]
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                                                        4 years ago

                                                        well i was operating on the sense of nihilism as Nietzsche defines it when he literally creates the term. the denial of life, specifically human life sense it is the only life of whose meaning it makes sense for humans to speak of (see wittgenstein russel and kant). you’re effectively saying all human efforts to create a better life are worthless because you see us as a whole as negatively contributing. what value do you ascribe to human life if not negative?

                                                        • RandomWords [he/him]
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                                                          4 years ago

                                                          human life is negative. this is mathematically provable. human life is a negative value on everything isn't a human.

                                                          before you attack this with words, do you have any mathematics to back up what your claim is? because i do.

                                                          • PaulWall [he/him]
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                                                            4 years ago

                                                            LOLLLLLLLLL im wasting my time conversing with such an inferior being

                                                            • grym [she/her, comrade/them]
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                                                              4 years ago

                                                              Well this was still a sort of interesting exchange until you literally called them an "inferior being", christ.

                                                              • PaulWall [he/him]
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                                                                4 years ago

                                                                i’ve been around my dad too much jesus christ

                                                            • RandomWords [he/him]
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                                                              4 years ago

                                                              and you claim that you're a fucking vegetarian. i eat chicken wings all day mother fucker, but i don't pretend that it's morally cohesive.

                                                              you are a fucking pathetic human being.

                                                              • PaulWall [he/him]
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                                                                4 years ago

                                                                everyone in this thread who you called pathetic said that you’re projecting. maybe you’re right, this might not be the place for you

                                                                  • PaulWall [he/him]
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                                                                    4 years ago

                                                                    you really just need to read more man, haha book makes intelligence go brrrr

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                                                                      4 years ago

                                                                      i don't think you understand the concept of the 'go brrr' meme

                                                                      • PaulWall [he/him]
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                                                                        4 years ago

                                                                        the human concept of go brrr or the non-human concept go brrr?

                                                                        • RandomWords [he/him]
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                                                                          4 years ago

                                                                          the entire concept. humans don't make concept, logic exists despite human beings. if you think a human made one log and one log make two logs you're part of the problem.

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                                                                            4 years ago

                                                                            this just in, “humans don’t make concepts.” so i guess the concepts are just out there floating in space waiting to be found, not created, by humans. you neo-platonist nerd

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                                                                              4 years ago

                                                                              yes... they are. i'm sorry you can't understand that and have to resort to throwing out insults over it.

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                                                                                4 years ago

                                                                                how are you a marxist if you’re not a materialist lmfao. are you literally an idealist

                                                                                • RandomWords [he/him]
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                                                                                  4 years ago

                                                                                  i don't resort to others making up an ideology for me. i just think things through.

                                                                                  • PaulWall [he/him]
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                                                                                    4 years ago

                                                                                    ideology =/= philosophic standpoint or even political standpoint

                                                                                    ideology is the lease through which you unconsciously view the world. it’s literally like integral to your experience that you experience things ideologically. read zizek when you’re done with kant

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                                                                                      4 years ago

                                                                                      you first statement is entirely wrong. an ideology is a philosophic standpoint that should not contradict a political standpoint that you hold.

                                                                                      • PaulWall [he/him]
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                                                                                        4 years ago

                                                                                        nah just read zizek then you’ll understand what i mean

                                                                                        • RandomWords [he/him]
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                                                                                          4 years ago

                                                                                          nah, i'll just inform you of real world concepts and not have to resort to saying "read ____"

                                                                                          • PaulWall [he/him]
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                                                                                            4 years ago

                                                                                            it would take too long an too much effort to understand. if you want to know the work i’m referencing it’s “the sublime object of ideology”

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                                                                                              4 years ago

                                                                                              jesus christ, learn to put your fucking ideas into words or you obviously don't understand them mother fucker.

                                                                                              • PaulWall [he/him]
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                                                                                                4 years ago

                                                                                                i did you just don’t agree with me and so i don’t want to have to give you a proof which would require much more length than me just giving you my idea as i’ve already done

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                                                                                                  4 years ago

                                                                                                  if you already did, they didn't seem to provide any knowledge that contradicts the points i've voiced. so if you can't back them up then all you've got is some guys name.

                                                                                                  • PaulWall [he/him]
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                                                                                                    4 years ago

                                                                                                    no i said what i thought ideology to be and you disagreed, in order for me to convince you we would have to have a long dialogue that i don’t desire having with you because you don’t have the background knowledge to make it worthwhile. it would literally just be me explains the sublime object of ideology to you, and that’s not something i care to do

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                                                                                                        4 years ago

                                                                                                        it’s not really a theoretically significant term to be honest. i’d imagine zizek is using it to convey the sense that ideology isn’t literally a direct object of our senses but is instead the way in which objects are configured within our senses. again it’s not really a technical term though.