I never get tired of 'em. I know we've discussed this before. I know the process is ongoing, not necessarily based on a single event, and depends a lot on your position in society. If discussing the radicalization of others, don't mention any methods unless people specifically told you that certain things radicalized them.
For me, I was a left-liberal for most of my life. Long story short, I ran in a state senate election trying to be as friendly to everyone as possible. The one thing I really wouldn't budge on was universal health care, since I knew from experience that it worked. I lost my election BADLY to a guy who ran on no platform at all, although he had much better name recognition. I worked so hard on that campaign and really was devastated and had to look for answers. Stupid as it sounds, at around that time I found the r/chapotraphouse subreddit and started listening to the podcast. That led to me listening to much better podcasts (like Revleft Radio), reading actual theory, and giving up on the Chapo podcast entirely once Bernie lost the last primary.
I'm always trying to radicalize others but I just usually get nowhere. George Floyd's death plus coronavirus I think resulted in a lot of people reconsidering things, but it seems like many of them have kind of swung back in the other direction now, at least as far as I can tell from watching my friends on Facebook. I've been arguing with my lib dad for months about all of this shit, with the result that he has actually gotten much better at deflecting Marxist points than the average lib lol. Sometimes I can get him to admit that everything is fucked and that Marxism is the only answer, at other times he'll say that we need to make friends with local business owners (some of the worst fucking people in the universe) and not alienate them.
Anyway, if you feel like writing your radicalization story or the radicalization stories of others, I'm happy to read.
Another lame chapo convert.
I was a lib my whole life, started down the SJW track as my bff started a sociology degree. First revelation was unifying my personal view of how people should be treated, trying my best to weed out as much cultural hard wiring as possible. Once I felt comfortable in that space, the anxiety and alienation grew--If everyone says we're supposed to treat each other equally and fairly, but we're not, then what are we going to do about it? I didn't have a good perspective on the resistance I was seeing. Everyone seemed to agree what good was (in my bubble), but no one had any ideas of what to do about it. We have cars and space ships and smart phones and governments that seemingly know everything and know exactly what to do right all the time (or else why would we trust them so much) so if there was a way to fix it then it would be fixed already. We're the most advanced country with the most money and opportunity in history--if we can't help people it's because the technology to help people doesn't exist yet. Don't worry though, we all know we need to clothe the poor and feed the homeless and close the income disparity, it's just a matter of time. As soon as we can get rid of those pesky republicans it'll all be okay.
The background hum of discontent sent me further into depression as my material conditions worsened and all I could really interpret from the world around me was "tough shit, vote". So you guess that's just it and you find a way to cope or fade away. Life was never meant to be fair.
Then almost exactly two years ago, the same bff told me about a juicy thread on a sub I'd never heard of before (subreddit drama I believe, I didn't use reddit much two years ago). The original thread is immaterial, but I was excited to dip into more drama so I went to the sub itself and the pinned thread was a timeline of the chapo takeover of r/libertarian. I already hated r/libertarian but had never in my life heard of chapo. The people in the comments said chapo people were trolls and just as bad, but I hated libertarians so I didn't give a shit (had no dog in the fight) and spent the next few hours peeling apart drama.
Well, of course that funneled me straight into the sub. At first I was confused because it was implied that chapos were a bunch of extremist edgelords, but the community there seemed to hate the same people I did and had a style of humor I wasn't used to seeing that drew me in. Not that chapo is super special or amazing in that way, I'd just never been the hugboxing sensitive type and being a woman in sjw spaces (not being sensitive as a woman apparently sticks out the people as a negative trait) I figured I didn't relate because I needed to work harder on my empathy. Don't get me wrong, I'll take a crying hug circle over edgy bullshit every time for its sincerity--there was just a part of me that clicked in right away with the tone of the sub. I was feeling a lot of anger that lengthy discussions on feminism, racism, and identity weren't touching on. I figured the anger was learned and the best way to make progress was with calm, gentle, and persistent understanding. But it just left me more confused, if I'm supposed to have empathy for everyone, why can't I have empathy for my white, cis, father who grew up dirt poor in the boonies of upstate New York? Why can't I feel empathy for the people who voted Trump because politicians have lied to them their whole lives? Why can't I feel empathy for my homeless friend who is racist in ways she doesn't understand but fundamentally acts with love and good faith? I didn't know what I was reading on chapo most of the time, I was essentially politically illiterate; I had a hard time reconciling that it was one of the most pro-trans and queer place I'd been on reddit, but I was also seeing Obama hate posts (I loved Obama) and disdain for "identity politics" and liberals. I was taught to tune people out when I heard certain words or cliches, but being predisposed to curiosity (and at the time undiagnosed ADHD), my need to get all the cool kid jokes overturned my learned aversion to certain uses of language.
There was a feeling that everyone on chapo was smarter and wittier than me, that they all knew some secret smart thing that made them so confident they were right. I knew the jokes were funny but I didn't know why. Having my ego developed in a highly educated and wealthy place (though I grew up poor which is hilarious--cultural "class" heritage without the money lol), I had intense insecurity about my level of intelligence and generally hated the idea that I didn't understand something enough to have an opinion on it. That in combination with my natural obstinance and growing frustration with liberal moral dissonance led to simply engage in good faith. I was there a couple days when I saw a meme of oscar the grouch and kermit as zizek and peterson, had no idea who zizek was, felt super dumb and spent the next day watching zizek lectures on youtube. Not long after, the dominoes had begun to fall and the rest is familiar to us all.
It was a painful time for me, learning what "good faith" really meant and suddenly found myself on the outside of political discussions with family and friends. I was learning new perspectives that made so much more sense than what I was taught, wouldn't everyone else be just as excited to know as well? My liberal extended community all seemed to have the same goals as me, wouldn't they like to hear the there are more effective ways of accomplishing our goals? Not, apparently, as the first few months of my new political observations were met with eye-rolls and "oh, so you're a communist now?" When I realized I didn't have to have a fully realized political ideology to challenge people, it made political debate a lot easier. Having just learned so much of what I knew was wrong, how best could I decouple myself from the part of me that held me back for so long in the first place? Just accept ignorance. It's okay to be ignorant and still want healthcare. It's okay to be ignorant and still want to end racism. It's okay to be ignorant and not like US imperialism. Okay, I'm an ignorant baby, mom. Tell me why we can't have universal healthcare.
I've turned more people on the same path just by asking THEM what THEY believe. My sjw bff (now roommate) and I continue to argue to this day, but he's reluctantly joined me on this journey (as much as he's capable). I was radicalized by my ego's need to be right (the advanced stage of needing to FEEL right lol) and I try to appeal to it in others when I can. You can be like the FAKE smart person you make fun of all the time for CHOOSING their facts, or you can be a real smart person and engage with me in good faith. From there, I just keep asking the next question because--honestly, I really am just trying to find the answer.
This is really good, thank you. Lately I haven’t been getting eyerolls at least on Facebook. Liberals there have gone back to either ignoring me or telling me to wait—that change takes time. And although I’m relatively nice to them, all I want to say is: “bitch, how MUCH time is this shit gonna take?” Also, a boomer doctor I know has been telling me that socialism is impossible because too many Americans are Republicans. Has he ever wondered WHY so many Americans are Republicans? Probably he would supply a phrenological explanation and say that it’s because of the authoritarian personality complex or the church. And liberals consider themselves intellectuals!
The thing that's got me farther than anything else is "why?". Every time I've asked someone why Socialism won't work (or analysis in the area), I end up 45 minutes later talking about their childhood traumas. Mental health and politics is so interconnected it's scary--begins to clarify the web of assumptions we keep whole for the sake of protecting our identities. Your brain hardens around the last thing it understood when you stopped learning and adults don't like it pointed out to them that they HAVE stopped. So many of our opinions are just the spreading roots of ego.
This is an interesting approach. I’ll give it a try. I’ve been trying to convert my dad for so long. He and his entire family experienced plenty of fucked up abuse at the hands of his own dad. He keeps complaining now about how socialism means he’ll have to do what dishwashers tell him. That’s his latest complaint. He’s a professional chef and he’s worked with a lot of shitty dishwashers. (I’ve also worked as a dishwasher, so maybe this is a not-so-subtle way of complaining about me!) I tell him, like, dad, last time I checked, dishwashers weren’t the reason I don’t have health care. They may have been impolite losers, but they never stole your shit. He’ll just come up with another weird excuse the next time we talk though.