I assumed that no reasonable person would consider it to be acceptable to let a dog just shit all over the place and then have to walk around and sleep and eat and play in a shit covered house
is this fr the core of this entire shitflinging argument? complete misalignment of priors. dogs that aren't housebroken are outside dogs. that's their 'natural' (deeply anthropogenic ofc) state. not dogs who live inside but shit everywhere. i can see how that would seem unreasonable, but that read legitimately did not occur to me at all.
is this fr the core of this entire shitflinging argument?
Isn't it wild how fast misunderstandings can be resolved when you have the guts to actually put forward a view instead of treating everything like a debate? The moment you clarified that you aren't trying to defend horse riding it became much easier to step back and determine where the disconnect came from. The entire time, my position has been crystal clear: riding horses is animal abuse, animal abuse is bad, training a dog to shit outside is not animal abuse and is not bad.
You made an argument that I interpreted to be in defense of horseback riding, and I stated that interpretation clearly and immediately. Why exactly did it take you so long to clarify that that was not the intention of your argument? What reason, if you were interested in good faith discussion, could you have had for knowingly allowing the other party to discuss under the assumption that the argument you were making was a completely different one from the one you were actually making?
dogs that aren't housebroken are outside dogs. that's their 'natural' (deeply anthropogenic ofc) state.
Here I have to disagree. We invented dogs. Their natural state is to live with us. I see a dog living outside or in the 'wild' as the 'unnatural' state for a dog. They evolved not, like their wolf ancestors, to live in the wilderness, but to live with us protected by our tools and our shelters. Because we bred them that way.
Anyway, that's just a digression. The point is which way is more ethical. To me it seems very obvious that if the two choices are don't bother to teach the dog to choose where it shits and force it to stay outside or do teach it to choose where it shits and allow it to benefit from the shelter of a human domicile, the latter is the more ethical choice.
not dogs who live inside but shit everywhere. i can see how that would seem unreasonable, but that read legitimately did not occur to me at all.
We must have quite different life experiences, because I have met plenty of dogs kept inside and not taught to appropriately handle their waste.
I have also met plenty of neglected dogs kept outside, but I've never before thought there was a particular link between that and training them to poop in the right places.
Now, I'd like to circle back around to the actual original point. Training a horse to stop fighting when you abuse it: necessarily abusive and done only in the service of more abuse. Training a dog to poop outside: not necessarily abusive and done in the service of affording the dog a more comfortable, safer, healthier, happier life inside shelter.
What reason, if you were interested in good faith discussion, could you have had for knowingly allowing the other party to discuss under the assumption that the argument you were making was a completely different one from the one you were actually making?
are you serious? the repeated insults; i'm flabbergasted you are still treating me like a child even after i've tried to cut through the misunderstanding and treat you with respect. you DID NOT articulate your alien interpretation of my OP at any point before this last comment. i was just supposed to vibe out that you had the weirdest possible reading of what i'd written? you expect everything of me but nothing of yourself, this self-satisfied screed is an embarrassment. you didn't "win" because i chose to try and explain our misunderstanding, you recapitulating it all over again in an infantilizing tone is testament to your dedication to getting in the last word just to look smart.
as a great man once said "In short, there are two wolves inside you. Both of them are redditors. Evict them"
you DID NOT articulate your alien interpretation of my OP at any point
I repeatedly accused you of defending horse riding, and you did not say that that is not what you were doing. That is what I mean. If I were being accused of making an argument I wasn't making I, personally, would clarify what my point is rather than insisting on continuing into semantic arguments while the person I'm talking to is under a false understanding of what my position is.
the repeated insults; i'm flabbergasted you are still treating me like a child even after i've tried to cut through the misunderstanding and treat you with respect.
The fact that you interpret my frustration with your refusal to communicate your position as an insult seems like a you problem
you didn't "win"
There it is. You know, I haven't been treating you like a child whatever you say. But maybe i should have been, because you are one. No one "won" anything. This isn't a fucking competition. This is what I was talking about the entire time. You are reddit to your very core.
is this fr the core of this entire shitflinging argument? complete misalignment of priors. dogs that aren't housebroken are outside dogs. that's their 'natural' (deeply anthropogenic ofc) state. not dogs who live inside but shit everywhere. i can see how that would seem unreasonable, but that read legitimately did not occur to me at all.
Isn't it wild how fast misunderstandings can be resolved when you have the guts to actually put forward a view instead of treating everything like a debate? The moment you clarified that you aren't trying to defend horse riding it became much easier to step back and determine where the disconnect came from. The entire time, my position has been crystal clear: riding horses is animal abuse, animal abuse is bad, training a dog to shit outside is not animal abuse and is not bad.
You made an argument that I interpreted to be in defense of horseback riding, and I stated that interpretation clearly and immediately. Why exactly did it take you so long to clarify that that was not the intention of your argument? What reason, if you were interested in good faith discussion, could you have had for knowingly allowing the other party to discuss under the assumption that the argument you were making was a completely different one from the one you were actually making?
Here I have to disagree. We invented dogs. Their natural state is to live with us. I see a dog living outside or in the 'wild' as the 'unnatural' state for a dog. They evolved not, like their wolf ancestors, to live in the wilderness, but to live with us protected by our tools and our shelters. Because we bred them that way.
Anyway, that's just a digression. The point is which way is more ethical. To me it seems very obvious that if the two choices are don't bother to teach the dog to choose where it shits and force it to stay outside or do teach it to choose where it shits and allow it to benefit from the shelter of a human domicile, the latter is the more ethical choice.
We must have quite different life experiences, because I have met plenty of dogs kept inside and not taught to appropriately handle their waste.
I have also met plenty of neglected dogs kept outside, but I've never before thought there was a particular link between that and training them to poop in the right places.
Now, I'd like to circle back around to the actual original point. Training a horse to stop fighting when you abuse it: necessarily abusive and done only in the service of more abuse. Training a dog to poop outside: not necessarily abusive and done in the service of affording the dog a more comfortable, safer, healthier, happier life inside shelter.
Where is the connection?
are you serious? the repeated insults; i'm flabbergasted you are still treating me like a child even after i've tried to cut through the misunderstanding and treat you with respect. you DID NOT articulate your alien interpretation of my OP at any point before this last comment. i was just supposed to vibe out that you had the weirdest possible reading of what i'd written? you expect everything of me but nothing of yourself, this self-satisfied screed is an embarrassment. you didn't "win" because i chose to try and explain our misunderstanding, you recapitulating it all over again in an infantilizing tone is testament to your dedication to getting in the last word just to look smart.
as a great man once said "In short, there are two wolves inside you. Both of them are redditors. Evict them"
I repeatedly accused you of defending horse riding, and you did not say that that is not what you were doing. That is what I mean. If I were being accused of making an argument I wasn't making I, personally, would clarify what my point is rather than insisting on continuing into semantic arguments while the person I'm talking to is under a false understanding of what my position is.
The fact that you interpret my frustration with your refusal to communicate your position as an insult seems like a you problem
There it is. You know, I haven't been treating you like a child whatever you say. But maybe i should have been, because you are one. No one "won" anything. This isn't a fucking competition. This is what I was talking about the entire time. You are reddit to your very core.