Just a quick shower thought (I am literally typing this in the shower)
I think it might hit closer to home, because the insult (accusing someone of being loyal to the empire) is less abstract than insulting someone for having an unscientific world-view. Another benefit is that it makes us seem less like conservatives, and is harder to coopt by patsocs.
Obviously, the insult will probably only become effective if it spreads so that people know what is being referred to. And obviously, liberalism is still a menace.
What do you guys think?
I prefer "settler" for Americans at least cause it really hits those "leftists"/"anarchists"/"communists" that refuse to admit we're still in settler colonialism
I can never use "citizen" as insult because it was the main honorific used in socialist Poland.
im sympathetic to the concept because using "lib" outside of specific contexts invites agreement or conversation from people i'd rather throw into a wood chipper, but idk if citizen is the right replacement
idk if citizen is the right replacement
Fair, it's just something I came up with in the shower.
Same, but like, you can type with wet hands? Your phone is fine getting wet? My phone doesn't register my fingers if they're wet
I just keep them both dry while the shower warms up the rest of my body
patriot (derogatory) is better but liberals think there's a difference between that and rightwing nationalism so i don't think it's vey cutting
I don't know why I forgot the existence of "nationalist". But I think "citizen" is also a little different. The former implies an ideology, the latter implies a willingness to be part of imperial machinations, even if unwittingly.
Nah, fun idea except normies will just think we're larping or some shit. if we're vibing on labels i'm good to keep up with helping 'liberal' destroy itself. i want it so reviled in the us no one uses it to label themselves. I want it only whispered in quiet corners and spit out of mouths. I want to kick at its corpse and be cheered at.
I sort of agree with this if only for the fact that once liberal takes on this widespread view lgbt people will distance themselves from it and I want that for the fact that radicalising lgbt movements is essential to making it a machine that is as effective at liberating itself as it once was.
Neat, but reading it in my head in a sentence makes me feel like a over-exaggerated Fallout character.
Insults only reflect the ugliness of the insulter, not that of the insulted, so I think it is generally best to avoid using them.
That being said, I don't think that "citizen" has any greater impact than "liberal". Honestly most people you'd insult using these terms probably self identify as such anyway.
I barely had to scroll down in your profile to find you trying to use "tankie" as a pejorative lol
lol literally a site tagline
One issue I have with hexbear is that you can't argue with its users on hexbear itself. Most comments from outsiders are deleted within a day, and most of the users aren't interested in discussions and simply resort to name calling and personal attacks. The more "sophisticated" ones will tell you to "read theory". The amount of hexbear users actually capable of producing arguments seems to be very low, at least from my experience.
These issues exist on other instances as well of course, but on hexbear its particularly bad. The only other instances this toxic I have interacted with were lemmygrad and exploding-heads.
Eat shit liberal
I apologize, I did not realize "tankie" was a pejorative. I thought I had seen people on here use that term to refer to themselves, but maybe that was lemmygrad.
Take your civility concern trolling, roll it up real tight, then cram it.
This is a lib analysis of insults.
Insults exist for a specific material purpose and should be analysed with that purpose in mind. That purpose is to make the other person uncomfortable. Discomfort is the basic building block of social behaviour, when you're trying to affect a child's social behaviour you give them discomfort (not necessarily with insults) for the behaviours you don't want them doing and you give them rewards for the ones you do want them doing. This applies as much to adults as it does children but we have less control over the adults (can't naughty step them) so we have different tools to use, insults are one of those.
If a person is not engaging with me the way I want them to engage I will make that engagement uncomfortable until they do, or I will ensure that the engagement is so uncomfortable that the next person they don't perform any of that behaviour with the next socialist they come across because they're avoidant of the same result.
If you do not recognise when and where you should take more aggressive tactics with others you are being a doormat.
Honestly most people you'd insult using these terms probably self identify as such anyway.
Some yes. But in the online space at least there's also an audience. People getting the impression that it's bad to be a loyal citizen of a genocidal empire is a good thing, particularly the onlookers that might be less politically aware.
The idea that you can get people to behave the way you want by insulting them doesn't match my experiences. What usually happens is that it shuts down any kind of conversation, as the other side either disengages, starts insulting you as well, or resorts to physical violence. It also has a negative impact on how that person, and others, perceive you, and interact with you in the future.
I also disagree that insulting others is needed to not be a "doormat". It is important to be capable of defending yourself, yes. But I have never found it to be necessary, or even useful, to insult others in order to achieve that.
You can analyze and justify them all you want, but insults are just a cheap way to make yourself feel superior to someone else.
It matches my experiences. I have literally had former libs come back months later and apologise for previous interactions they had with me.
Our interactions do not happen in a vacuum. Zoom out and view things hollistically. I am not the only communist that is going to speak to [belligerent liberal], they are going to encounter others after me. It is NOT possible to turn a liberal in every encounter, moods, daily lives, what kind of shit a person is going through, all kinds of things are out of my control when interacting with a person. The way they interact with me is entirely based on luck.
If luck has it that this person is open minded and has intellectual curiosity then no insults are necessary at all. They are the perfect candidate for education and can be engaged with in good faith. But, as so happens to often be the case, many times the person I interact with is not in this mindset and there is zero chance of turning that person in this single interaction.
My job, holistically, in that situation, is to set this individual up so that the next communist they encounter has an easier time than I have. In order to do that I need to ensure that the behaviours that aren't useful are suitably deterred from occurring again.
I know this works because I have experienced it working dozens of times.
There are times when none of this is necessary, and there are other times when it is beneficial. Being able to judge what to do is a skill that is well worth honing.
The most important skill to learn however is the ability to view yourself and your interactions not as individual interactions but as just one input that exists as part of a whole, a movement. When you understand your interactions on this level then you can tailor your interactions not to the individual level but instead to what benefits the movement as a whole.
I think how much i agree with you depends on how far you take this. Does this position extend to debating with hateful beliefs as well? I'm askin', do you go as far as to disagree with the paradox of tolerance?
You can analyze and justify them all you want, but insults are just a cheap way to make yourself feel superior to someone else.
"You can use logic and reason all you want, but my vibes say you're wrong."
You're right, it's always best to be civil with people, even if we find the things they stand for unethical. I actually found this article about how baseless insults actually ruined our chances at pushing the Dems left. It's an eye opening read.
Insults only reflect the ugliness of the insulter, not that of the insulted, so I think it is generally best to avoid using them.
Ideally, yes, but good luck convincing people online to not insult each other.
I should know better.
b
