No talking on the quiet carriage. No boom box on the subway. No conversation in the queue.

Is this capitalist isolation or is this western “decorum” or what? Why do I have to shake off the instinct to cringe when I hear someone playing music through their phone speakers? Why do I worry if anyone can hear my music through my headphones? What the fuck is this pathetic silence masquerading as a “culture”

  • grillpilled [he/him]
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    4 years ago

    It's not only in white, western cultures that people don't want every single one of their senses bombarded constantly while locked in a moving, metal box crammed with people. For a lot of people, being on the subway is the only time they're not working or taking care of their family, and maybe they want to rest, read a book, or listen to music that they actually like on their headphones.

    • CommieGirl69 [he/him]
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      4 years ago

      excuse me sir no if you deem yourself a socialist you have to TALK TO ME and LISTEN TO MY NOISE at ALL TIMES otherwise you're a reactionary

  • pisspissass [none/use name]
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    4 years ago

    your music sucks, their music sucks, no one has anything interesting to say. we should value Shutting The Fuck Up more

    • glimmer_twin [he/him]
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      4 years ago

      Very socialist outlook, lol. Everyone should maintain their own individual bubble at all times.

      • CommieGirl69 [he/him]
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        4 years ago

        i hate talking to people most of the time, it bores the fuck out of me

        that doesn't mean i want them to go hungry or i don't care about their personal suffering wtf...

        letting people go by their business is in no way "individualism", it's just respect

        • MonarchLabsOne [he/him]
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          4 years ago

          Same but I think there's an argument that we are "broken" humans that can't engage with one another because of capitalism. Ergo, without capitalism, you might actually be interested in talking to others.

          The profit motive is hella fucked up.

          • CommieGirl69 [he/him]
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            4 years ago

            capitalism didn't create the notion of personal space

            plus what the hell does the profit motive have to do with thinking you have the right to be blasting your music on speakers in the bus?

            • MonarchLabsOne [he/him]
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              4 years ago

              This is such a Reddit-ass response that I don't even know where to start.

                • MonarchLabsOne [he/him]
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                  4 years ago

                  Other comrades in this thread have the patience for baby socialists, but I don't. There's more important work to be done than explaining basic oppressive forces present in capitalism.

                  https://hexbear.net/post/35902/comment/289417

          • Rev [none/use name]
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            4 years ago

            You might, but also they might not have anything interesting to say. The pressure to make small talk and the addiction to have things constantly distract you from any deep contemplative introspection is way more prevalent.

          • glimmer_twin [he/him]
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            4 years ago

            This is what I was getting at, then I got a bunch of reddit gentlesir “lmao imagine listening to the noise of the low IQ rabble whilst out in public“ responses. Interesting.

            • Rev [none/use name]
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              4 years ago

              If you unilaterally take for yourself the right to pollute the space with your noise everyone in the unwilling audience you've thus taken hostage also has the unilateral right to punch you in the face and throw away your boombox. Fair is fair. Is this the kind of hostile environment you want to live in?

              • glimmer_twin [he/him]
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                4 years ago

                I love that from my original post saying “why do I live in terror thinking someone might hear music playing through my earbuds, maybe the oppressive need we feel to have an eternal personal bubble around ourselves says something about our society” people have assumed I meant “WhY cAn’T i MaKe ThE lOuD BoOm BoOm??”

                • Rev [none/use name]
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                  4 years ago

                  But where's the terror though (besides inside your head)? I've never encountered anyone being even slightly reprimanded for some sound leaking out of their headphones, much less ganging up on the "offender". Where is this magical totally silent place you live in, maybe I should relocate?

                  • glimmer_twin [he/him]
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                    4 years ago

                    Dude, look at the downvotes and comments I’m getting for even raising a discussion about “is it fucked up we all want to isolate from each other as much as possible, and turn our public life (which being out on the bus or what have you inarguably is, whether we like it or not) into a further extension of our private life?”.

                    The subject of this post isn’t “I should be allowed to blast music on the train, or pester someone in the privacy of their own home”, but I’m being treated as some sort of delinquent for even suggesting it might be okay if, sometimes, maybe, we heard something we didn’t specifically choose to hear :/

                    • Rev [none/use name]
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                      4 years ago

                      Nobody's saying that it's not ok. For example in the town I live we often have a piano set up in the street or subway or what have you for random people just to sit down and play on as they pass by. It's quite lovely and no one ever complains, people even stop to have a listen occasionally. We also get street musicians or performers in the city centre on the regular. Again, onlookers are always delighted. So unless our experience of living in the West is radically different I just have no clue about the supposed totalitarian enforcement of silence that you're getting at. Like yeah, I guess people in the global south are more publicly talkative but I just don't see how any of this is an issue. And neither does the bulk of the participants in this thread it seems. Like what's preventing you from starting a conversation with random strangers on the street? Or from asking the folks in a train carriage if you can play some music and if no one has a problem busting out a tuba you've been carrying around or something? This is why I'd guess the peeps responding here assumed you're advocating for an unalienable right to sonically pollute closed spaces.

                      • quartz [she/her]
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                        4 years ago

                        If you unilaterally take for yourself the right to play piano on the sidewalk, everyone taken hostage by the ebony and ivory bars has the right to drop an acme safe on your head

                    • PaulRyansWorkoutTape [none/use name]
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                      4 years ago

                      The subject of this post isn’t “I should be allowed to blast music on the train, or pester someone in the privacy of their own home”, but I’m being treated as some sort of delinquent for even suggesting it might be okay if, sometimes, maybe, we heard something we didn’t specifically choose to hear :/

                      "I'm not saying X, I'm saying X but phrasing it with pompous moralizing"

                      You're getting downvoted because you're a selfish asshole trying to make your indifference towards other people fit into a framing where they're actually the problem.

            • MonarchLabsOne [he/him]
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              4 years ago

              I agree with you. I think this is more of a critical theory topic than a general leftist shit posting one.

              The spectrum of the American left is very wide and very much affected by capitalism's oppressive forces. Folks responding to you can't fathom how the profit motive affects human behavior and interactions to the point people are generally antisocial.

              I don't know what humans would behave like without the profit motive, I don't know how long it would take to "de-program" either. It could take generations, it could take a single one.

      • Zuzak [fae/faer, she/her]
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        4 years ago

        Socialism is when everyone is an extrovert and the more extroverted they are the more socialistier it is.

      • BigDaddy [he/him]
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        4 years ago

        Or maybe the west is SO uncomfortable with silence that they can't stand to sit next to a stranger in silence, they have to interject their own thoughts and feelings.

      • cum_drinker69 [any]
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        4 years ago

        The most socialist thing is listening to the opinions of the reactionary populous of the US.

  • Crustism [none/use name]
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    4 years ago

    Americans are notriously loud and I really wish people wouldn't be so loud in public spaces. I have sensory issues and it honestly gets pretty distressing.

  • Gay_Wrath [fae/faer]
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    4 years ago

    feels like people are missing what you're trying to say kinda lol. Anyway I've been to Japan and public transit has the same sort of "keep to yourself" culture. in portland, people are very friendly, but you're a lot more likely to chat with a stranger on the street than on a bus. This makes me think it's a politeness thing to keep the public transit relatively distraction free, and I've noticed the same tendency in busy place all over - if you have no privacy, you pretend you can't see other people so they'll extend the same courtesy to you so we can all fake it for a bit. Similar vibe in apartment buildings with neighbors you can you hear/see - the polite thing seems to be mostly pretending each other doesn't exist. I mean idk, I'm autistic so I could be assuming the wrong things here.

  • star_wraith [he/him]
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    4 years ago

    Idk I've always just seen it as polite to not subject other people to what you want to listen to?

  • peepeepants_mcgee [any]
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    4 years ago

    It's fucking annoying having to deal with loud people when I'm going about my day.

    You seriously wanna hear some guys shitty music on the subway? You want howling screaming teenagers screeching nonsense ten feet away from you?

  • CoralMarks [he/him]
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    4 years ago

    This thread took a turn for the worse it seems, I think OP might not have phrased his idea/question the best way possible.
    But still I believe it is a valid question to raise if capitalist culture and society has conditioned us in ways that make us generally averse to interaction with strangers and how/if that would differ in a socialist society.

    Edit: I think I've got something that fits the topic about how this differed in the GDR for example. Here is a chapter from the book "Stasi State or Socialist Paradise?":

    Social ethos – the community spirit

    spoiler

    In our own society, which is dominated by a free-market ideology, we have seen a breakdown of communities, of solidarity and mutual care, particularly since Thatcher announced that ‘there is no such thing as society’, and set about proving it, individuals became more self-centred. Our society is now ridden with fears – of crime, unemployment, homelessness and isolation.

    The social ethos in the GDR and the fact that everyone felt responsible in some way for what happened around them, meant that serious crime and anti-social behaviour were minimal. In general, people had no fears of being out on the streets late at night or entering particular areas of a city; women, too, were not subjected to the levels of sexual harassment they often endure in capitalist countries. Not that such things did not happen, they did, but were exceptions. The absence of mass advertising and sex misused as a sales tool meant that women were not objectified as in the West and this helped mitigate psychological pressures on individuals.

    Children were generally seen as everyone’s responsibility. Typically, you could see a row of prams in front of a shop or department store with sleeping babies. if one of them woke up while their mothers or fathers were inside shopping, passers-by would often interact with the child, trying to calm it down if it was distressed, until the parents returned. Fully qualified staff in schools and nurseries ensured children were well cared for and educationally stimulated. Neighbours, too, took an interest in and were concerned about children’s wellbeing. There were thus very few cases of abuse, abandonment, delinquency or serious mental health problems as a result of lack of care.

    It is that sense of community that was very strong in the GDR. People did not just live alongside each other, they interacted with each other. Germans (East and West) tend to live in blocks of flats more than in individual houses. In the GDR, the majority of flats belonged to the communities and some were owned by co-operatives. The social mix in these blocks of flats was very different from anything one would find in the UK or in the new Germany. There were academics living next to craftsmen, teachers next to train drivers, civil servants next to shop assistants. This is also the reason why living in a flat was not seen as a ‘second choice’ - they were the typical mode of accommodation and everybody was keen to make their block and the surroundings as pleasant as possible.

    Tenants themselves were responsible for the cleaning of the communal areas: the corridors, staircases, airing and washing rooms in the cellar and other communal areas. Where applicable, tenants also took responsibility for caring for the surrounding outside areas which could include lawns, shrubbery and flowerbeds. In winter, they were responsible for clearing snow from the pavement fronting their blocks. Tenants shared this work and took turns on a rota basis. In order to organise the rotas and manage the sums paid by the local authority for the carrying out of this necessary communal work, so-called ‘Hausgemeinschaften’ (residents’ associations in each block of flats) were formed. These associations varied in size depending on the number of flats. Some associations were very active and organised group visits to the theatre or held parties; others just did the minimum. It very much depended on the people living in the block; there was no outside pressure. The money received for looking after the public areas of the flats was held in a common fund. This fund was also supplemented by monies received from recycling.

    Recycling was a big thing in the GDR. Already in the 1950s, there was regular recycling of bottles, jars and paper. Back then it was not so much for environmental reasons but because of a scarcity of raw materials and therefore there was an urgent need to make the best use of the available material. However the habit of recycling stuck, and later, when public concerns about the environment became more central, the number of items that could be recycled was expanded. For instance, plastic and batteries were already being recycled in the 1980s. Recycling was easy in the GDR because there were many small, local recycling stations within walking distance – and people were reimbursed for items recycled. For both these reasons it worked well. Everybody recycled, including children who were encouraged in school and by the Young Pioneers organisation. While some collected bottles and paper to earn extra money for themselves, others did it in order to raise money for a particular project. Women and pensioner organisations were involved, as were allotment associations. While these had special recycling campaigns, tenant associations were the key for regular recycling. Many collected all items to be recycled in a special room in the basement of their block of flats and then organised appropriate transport to the nearest recycling station. Some even had contracts with factories and delivered bottles to them directly for re-use.

    The residents’ association in a block of flats decided how to use the money that had been built up in their fund over the year. Some created a hobby room with DIY tools, some a special storage space for bicycles or even a party room that could be used by all tenants; some organised parties specially for children or for all the tenants; other associations paid out to every tenant a percentage of the money at the end of the year. How the money was used was democratically decided in the association. This carrying out of community work together and holding parties helped tenants get to know each other really well, and this also encouraged mutual support when it was needed.

  • Rev [none/use name]
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    4 years ago

    Maybe you're just a brash asshole who likes annoying people? 🤷🏻‍♂️

    • glimmer_twin [he/him]
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      4 years ago

      When did I ever say I engage in that behaviour? In my post I’m specifically questioning my own fear of ever creating any noise in public, lest I interrupt our most precious silence. I’m pondering why we value this so highly. I have on many occasions worn headphones playing nothing, just so nobody engages with me. I’m questioning what the fuck it is in our society that makes that a thing someone would do.

      • Rev [none/use name]
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        4 years ago

        Because people have their own thoughts to keep them occupied? Because they've already been acoustically assaulted all day at work? Because wherever you go in a city it's constant noise, whether ads, shitty pop music or traffic? The isolation, alienation, the fear of others is a real thing in capitalist society but in terms of day to day life it's the absence of silence, not its enforcement that's ubiquitous.

  • PaulRyansWorkoutTape [none/use name]
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    4 years ago

    I'm the most important person in the world so whatever I want to listen to is what everyone else HAS to listen to because their lives don't matter as much as mine.