Struggle session engage. Post your pathetic arguments so that I and the other China Good Posters can dismantle them and you can learn.

Key points:

  • China is a democracy. It is arguably the most functional and responsive democracy in a major country today. Its citizens consider it more democratic than the citizens of almost any other country do their own.

  • China is on a clear path to socialism and economic justice. No nation in history has ever reduced poverty in anything like the way China is doing it.

  • The vast majority of people in the PRC support the CPC. This is not due to being brainwashed. Americans are brainwashed and still hate their government.

  • Almost everything you hear about China in the West sits on a spectrum between malicious misrepresentation to outright fabrication with no basis in reality.

  • China's ascension to the premiere global power is an extremely good thing for world peace and the global socialist movement. While China does not actively support other socialisms (sadly it's not as good as the USSR in this regard) it does not do imperialism. China will allow socialisms around the world to flourish simply by not actively crushing them like the US and Europe.

  • Pickle_Lenin [any]
    1·
    4 years ago

    There's some kernel of truth to it, which is the fact that there ARE re-education camps in Xinjiang aimed at individuals that are radicalized or prone to radicalization. As far as I've been able to find though, that's basically all they are: re-education centers where Uyghur muslims can learn the language, skills etc. necessary to better integrate into society and prevent radicalization that way. All the claims of sterilizations, killings, cultural genocide, etc. are all made up. If you want a quick look into where these claims came from and why, here's this and this. If you're down to do some reading to see the whole picture though, here's this giant ass document detailing literally everything you know from start to finish.

        • yeahhhhhhhhhboiii [none/use name]
          1·
          4 years ago

          They mostly bunk overnight because these are vocational centers, where Uyghurs from different locations go to. But they get to leave over the weekends.

          • skollontai [any]
            2·
            4 years ago

            Read the thing before you post it, man. The guy who oversees the facility said that people could leave, but it was corroborated by none of the inmates the journalists talked to. This is the kind of factual sloppiness and slippery sourcing that makes Chapo's China gang so hard to debate with.

            Mahmut says students stay in the facility he oversees for an average of eight months and can leave after doing well on exams. But none of the several detainees the government made available to NPR said it was clear when they could return home.

            • iKarli [comrade/them]
              ·
              4 years ago

              Mahmut says students stay in the facility he oversees for an average of eight months and can leave after doing well on exams. But none of the several detainees the government made available to NPR said it was clear when they could return home.

              By "return home" here they're referring to when detainees can return home after fully graduating the program rather than simply being allowed to return home on the weekends.

            • Yun [he/him]
              ·
              4 years ago

              I imagine it may vary depending on how severely radicalized the students are but you may be interested in this post I made that covers a clip where the students themselves say they go home on weekends and on holidays: https://hexbear.net/post/33959

              • skollontai [any]
                3·
                4 years ago

                Haha, true. And that's very weird, because the current Chinese government they defend is radically different from the one that did the cultural revolution. So why do they need to defend both Maoism and Dengism? Could it be as simple as "see red flag, hear word 'communist', must write 8000 post in defense"? I'm beginning to think it's a Dinesh Disouza-style "National Socialist--see it's in the name!" level of analysis.

                • keki_ya [none/use name]
                  ·
                  4 years ago

                  Nobody should be defending China as perfect socialist state on par with the USSR, but I think most people realize that if the world is going to be dominated by a global superpower, the one that still teaches Marxism in schools is the better alternative to the one that wants to hang communists up in the trees, so in that way I 'support' dengist China

                  • skollontai [any]
                    1·
                    4 years ago

                    if the world is going to be dominated by a global superpower

                    This is the flaw in the logic, this idea that global politics is a Manichean struggle. Even in the 1950s, at the peak of their combined economic power, the US and USSR where never more than large players on a much larger stage. We don't need to "support" one of the big guys in the room--we can accept their help if they agree with us on a specific issue, but never mistake that for them being on our "team" (even if they do still teach some Marx).

                    • keki_ya [none/use name]
                      ·
                      4 years ago

                      the US and USSR where never more than large players on a much larger stage

                      okay, I'll rephrase: If I had to choose between China or the USA being a larger player, I would choose China. Obviously, both can (and will) coexist, but if I could choose which country collapse tomorrow, I wouldn't pick China. Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you mean here, sorry

                      also, they don't just teach "some Marx". Marxist courses are required for college and party members are required to pass Marxist exams (sort of like the imperial system, funnily enough). Go on a Chinese political message board and you'll see how accepted socialism is, they really are miles ahead of the US. It's just a country that is way more open and accepting of our ideals, even if those ideals aren't going to be implemented by the capitalist government.

      • snackage [he/him]
        1·
        4 years ago

        These centers are a response to actual terrorist attacks in the region and a trend of Uyghur fighters popping up in Syria and fighting for Isis. Tell me how a western power would react?

    • skollontai [any]
      1·
      4 years ago

      aimed at individuals that are radicalized or prone to radicalization

      How's that determined? Who does the determining? What evidence do you have of widespread radicalization? How is this in any way different from the FBI profiling mentally handicapped muslim 16-year-old and setting him up as a terrorist? (Except, obviously, that it's being done on a larger scale.)