why doubt? Ukraine-Maidan and Hong Kong, the minuscule anarchists were part of the protest. I remember reading anarchist reports about being chased out of protests by Right Sector Nazis during Maidan. The Nazis were the ones doing the street fighting against the cops during Maidan. Hong Kong protests, the anarchists were surprised by the rightwing nationalism of the protests, even when Murican flags were being waved. This is not sectarianism, just stating facts, anarchists (no matter how minuscule they are) they will join any protest (even when it's an obvious NED/CIA job) that opposes their government.
Yeah, there's a long interview from some Hong Kong anarchist collective that I read where despite them being part of the protests they spend the entire thing complaining about how reactionary the movement they're materially supporting is, how the bulk of the protesters (whom they were still unconditionally supporting) were racist, sexist creeps who were violently intolerant of any sort of internal criticism, and how the protest movement was rallying around Euromaidan symbols and idolizing Azovite nazis, and how there was a general sort of millenarianism to the protests where they weren't even aimed at succeeding so much as trying to force such a crackdown that the US would step in directly and burn the world for them.
But they still supported them, even as they verbally tore apart the whole movement in ways the media would never touch lmao. Like they were so sectarian that they were making common cause with fascists and then also being sectarian against their fascist allies that they willfully chose to ally with.
anarchists (no matter how minuscule they are) they will join any protest (even when it's an obvious NED/CIA job) that opposes their government.
Anarchists showing up to a protest because they think it's based for being anti-cop or anti-corp, realize they've been cucked, then come back and report (honestly) about what they saw are Good Aktuly.
They've got good morals and bad info. They're doing a little bit of insider journalism for folks with an outsider perspective. And they're self-radicalizing, to a degree, as they realize who they're dealing with.
It's the shitlibs and shitlibertarians who show up, meet Nazis, and come back insisting "oh wait these Trump guys have a lot of good points, we both don't like the SeeSeePee. Trust them they're based and cool" are the ones I'm more disgusted with.
Your David Brooks tier anti-government guy who goes down to Berlin to cover the fall of the wall and announce how much he loves German Nationalism all of a sudden... We all know how that story ends.
But I'm not going to lose faith in an America-pilled guy who goes in thinking he's supporting Hong Kong John Kerry and comes out spitting curses at Allen Dulles. That's how we get more Matt Christmans.
Anarchists naively telling on themselves is good for us on an intel level but it doesn't make said anarchists hopeful candidates to develop politically in a better direction, and while make anarchists do make that step forward, most do not.
Anarchists naively telling on themselves is good for us
It's more them going inside these organizations and outing their fash roots.
it doesn't make said anarchists hopeful candidates to develop politically in a better direction
You can't change your view without a different perspective. The keyboard commando anarchists who live on the computer, never actually meet anyone in person, never show up at protests or organize with peers, and simply regurgitate the same twelve anarchist memes dating back to the Spanish Civil War are the ones who won't develop. The anarchists who try to do Real Anarchy by taking direct action are the ones who are primed to either convert or at least do a little good for others in their stubborness.
while make anarchists do make that step forward, most do not
The anarchists who make the jump stop being anarchists and start being the Secret Other Thing (). So it's something of a selection bias.
But - at least in America - we all start out as something much closer to the fashist core approved by the state. Libertarians, Progressives, Greens, and Anarchists are people who have at least stretched outside the ideological zone that liberals and conservatives permit. You're not going to find a ton of people who are Marxists out of the gate because you're not going to find a bunch of Marxism in elementary education and social circles. People have to get there somehow. Anarchy is farther along the road than most people get. Give them a chance to keep growing.
I disagree. I'm not online in spaces to deal with keyboard commando anarchists, all my experience is from anarchists on the ground involved with organizing in my community. They will dox a tankie before they do anything to actually challenge capitalism and no exposure to differing perspectives is going to change their minds. They are, like soc dems, volunteer sheep dogs of liberalism who exist to lead newly developing leftists away from Marxism. Anarchists will often suppress materialist thought in organizing spaces and police these spaces in a way to divert energy into useless BS until the momentum dies down and nothing happens. I know quite a few anarchists who became Marxists and the common denominator is that they didn't identity as anarchists for more than a year or two before the reality of organizing in anarchist spaces made it obvious that they needed to look further for answers. Anyone who is an anarchist after their baby leftist phase is basically a volunteer cop in my eyes. I used to be more big tent about it but I have seen anarchists wreck a dozen different organizing arenas in my community, almost all of which were white people fucking up a movement that had the biggest impact on colonized communities. I have seen white anarchists enable fascists and cops, try to dox Muslim organizers, push out Black organizers and more. I have a lot of criticisms of Marxists too but I've never seen them do the type of stuff that I've seen anarchists do to comrades and movements.
They will dox a tankie before they do anything to actually challenge capitalism and no exposure to differing perspectives is going to change their minds.
Maybe we're just in different communities, but I've never seen anyone "dox" a fellow volunteer.
If you're at an in-person meet up, I'm not sure what that's even supposed to look like.
Anyone who is an anarchist after their baby leftist phase is basically a volunteer cop in my eyes. I used to be more big tent about it but I have seen anarchists wreck a dozen different organizing arenas in my community, almost all of which were white people fucking up a movement that had the biggest impact on colonized communities.
That's a long history of organizing to see as many groups get wrecked. I've had a lot of hurdles with my neighborhood - people with free time, costs of supplies, building trust, staying organized as a group.
Squabbles between communists and anarchists are the least part of it.
why doubt? Ukraine-Maidan and Hong Kong, the minuscule anarchists were part of the protest. I remember reading anarchist reports about being chased out of protests by Right Sector Nazis during Maidan. The Nazis were the ones doing the street fighting against the cops during Maidan. Hong Kong protests, the anarchists were surprised by the rightwing nationalism of the protests, even when Murican flags were being waved. This is not sectarianism, just stating facts, anarchists (no matter how minuscule they are) they will join any protest (even when it's an obvious NED/CIA job) that opposes their government.
Yeah, there's a long interview from some Hong Kong anarchist collective that I read where despite them being part of the protests they spend the entire thing complaining about how reactionary the movement they're materially supporting is, how the bulk of the protesters (whom they were still unconditionally supporting) were racist, sexist creeps who were violently intolerant of any sort of internal criticism, and how the protest movement was rallying around Euromaidan symbols and idolizing Azovite nazis, and how there was a general sort of millenarianism to the protests where they weren't even aimed at succeeding so much as trying to force such a crackdown that the US would step in directly and burn the world for them.
But they still supported them, even as they verbally tore apart the whole movement in ways the media would never touch lmao. Like they were so sectarian that they were making common cause with fascists and then also being sectarian against their fascist allies that they willfully chose to ally with.
Anarchists showing up to a protest because they think it's based for being anti-cop or anti-corp, realize they've been cucked, then come back and report (honestly) about what they saw are Good Aktuly.
They've got good morals and bad info. They're doing a little bit of insider journalism for folks with an outsider perspective. And they're self-radicalizing, to a degree, as they realize who they're dealing with.
It's the shitlibs and shitlibertarians who show up, meet Nazis, and come back insisting "oh wait these Trump guys have a lot of good points, we both don't like the SeeSeePee. Trust them they're based and cool" are the ones I'm more disgusted with.
Your David Brooks tier anti-government guy who goes down to Berlin to cover the fall of the wall and announce how much he loves German Nationalism all of a sudden... We all know how that story ends.
But I'm not going to lose faith in an America-pilled guy who goes in thinking he's supporting Hong Kong John Kerry and comes out spitting curses at Allen Dulles. That's how we get more Matt Christmans.
Anarchists naively telling on themselves is good for us on an intel level but it doesn't make said anarchists hopeful candidates to develop politically in a better direction, and while make anarchists do make that step forward, most do not.
It's more them going inside these organizations and outing their fash roots.
You can't change your view without a different perspective. The keyboard commando anarchists who live on the computer, never actually meet anyone in person, never show up at protests or organize with peers, and simply regurgitate the same twelve anarchist memes dating back to the Spanish Civil War are the ones who won't develop. The anarchists who try to do Real Anarchy by taking direct action are the ones who are primed to either convert or at least do a little good for others in their stubborness.
The anarchists who make the jump stop being anarchists and start being the Secret Other Thing (
). So it's something of a selection bias.
But - at least in America - we all start out as something much closer to the fashist core approved by the state. Libertarians, Progressives, Greens, and Anarchists are people who have at least stretched outside the ideological zone that liberals and conservatives permit. You're not going to find a ton of people who are Marxists out of the gate because you're not going to find a bunch of Marxism in elementary education and social circles. People have to get there somehow. Anarchy is farther along the road than most people get. Give them a chance to keep growing.
I disagree. I'm not online in spaces to deal with keyboard commando anarchists, all my experience is from anarchists on the ground involved with organizing in my community. They will dox a tankie before they do anything to actually challenge capitalism and no exposure to differing perspectives is going to change their minds. They are, like soc dems, volunteer sheep dogs of liberalism who exist to lead newly developing leftists away from Marxism. Anarchists will often suppress materialist thought in organizing spaces and police these spaces in a way to divert energy into useless BS until the momentum dies down and nothing happens. I know quite a few anarchists who became Marxists and the common denominator is that they didn't identity as anarchists for more than a year or two before the reality of organizing in anarchist spaces made it obvious that they needed to look further for answers. Anyone who is an anarchist after their baby leftist phase is basically a volunteer cop in my eyes. I used to be more big tent about it but I have seen anarchists wreck a dozen different organizing arenas in my community, almost all of which were white people fucking up a movement that had the biggest impact on colonized communities. I have seen white anarchists enable fascists and cops, try to dox Muslim organizers, push out Black organizers and more. I have a lot of criticisms of Marxists too but I've never seen them do the type of stuff that I've seen anarchists do to comrades and movements.
Maybe we're just in different communities, but I've never seen anyone "dox" a fellow volunteer.
If you're at an in-person meet up, I'm not sure what that's even supposed to look like.
That's a long history of organizing to see as many groups get wrecked. I've had a lot of hurdles with my neighborhood - people with free time, costs of supplies, building trust, staying organized as a group.
Squabbles between communists and anarchists are the least part of it.